兩聲道
CD機 | MD機 | SACD機 | DAC | CAS | 合拼擴音機 | 前級擴音機 | 後級擴音機 | 接線 | 喇叭線 | 揚聲器 | 耳機 | 耳機擴音機 | LP產品 | 膽機產品 | 開卷式錄音機 | 音響配件 | DIY音響 | 電源 | 家庭影院
電視機 | 投影機 | 錄影機 | DVD影碟機 | Blu-ray影碟機 | 多媒體播放器 | 機頂盒 | 多聲道擴音機 | 多聲道揚聲器 | 多聲道影音組合 | Mini音響組合 | 重低音揚聲器 | 輔助設備 | 同好會
同好會 | Accuphase | B&W | Burmester | Denon | Jadis | KEF | KRELL | Luxman | Marantz | Nuforce | OPPO | Pioneer | TEAC | WEISS | News
News | Blog | 其他
其他 | 所有 |
| 影音天地主旨 ﹝請按主旨作出回應﹞ 上頁 下頁 首頁 尾頁 | 寄件者 | 傳送日期
|
| [#2549] HKPO/EdW/Mahler 6 CKM Agreed with you that the interpretation style of conductors are neither unanimous nor consistent, my beloved Bernstein account (1966 CBS) is exactly the opposite side of De Waats, Boulez and Szell, this camp adopts a much rational, cooler but objective way to illustrate us what tragedy should be in the heart of Mahler, even I respect their efforts and style, their reading simply could not fill me in at all! For the camp of Tennstedt, Bernstein and Babirolli, this folks adopt a much glowing, heartfelt, soulful, neurotic approach which infects me how tragic Mahler was at his career peak and family well-beings, do they correctly read the state of mind of Mahler? who knows?! but their readings really get me involved and engaging, even they might more or less "re-invent" or "rediscover" the score of Mahler Sixth, if you have a chance to listen another exotic accounts of Mitropolous and Mengelberg, their mahler is totally not the same thing as De Waarts' style. George |
george1977 正式會員219.xxx.xxx.72 |
2007-12-01 10:40 | |
|
|
|||
| [#2550] HKPO/EdW/Mahler 6 Personally I prefer a more neurotic passionate approach too, but if you want something in between, try Bertini. |
chankaiming 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.106 |
2007-12-01 10:45 |
| [#2551] HKPO/EdW/Mahler 6 See you later! |
george1977 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.72 |
2007-12-01 10:54 |
| [#2552] HKPO/EdW/Mahler 6 cclai870 Thank you for your feedback as well, you caught me just before I disappear for a month and follow where good music goes. I personally gave a lot of support to HKPO during the past few years since Edo de Waart came on board. The standard of this orchestra is beyond doubt risen from dirt to a respectable standard today and still a long way to reach the highest standard in the world. Everyone in the orchestra tried hard to lift this standard in hope to get more financial support from sponsors, in particular very large corporate sponsors. I and not an employee of this orchestra but merely a strong supoorter who enjoyed music played in Hong Kong with standard which I hope to listen. I learned a lesson to from now on keep my mouth shut in public place like this because this attract unhappiness and argument among people who may have different opinion to mine. I had been an audiophile for 50 years and you name it expensive equipment, I owned them and use them before. These days, I no longer listen to hifi but instead, mostly live concerts. Since I know which seat is good at CCCH, I always have the seat reserved to enjoy the best possible sound from the orchestra. BTW, the few seats that I like are not necessary the most expensive ticket either. Like listening to hifi, I once told some audiophile it is not necessary to buy the most expensive hifi to enjoy music to the full, good sound came from proper room acoustic treatment, many room designers are money hungry grabber while there are one or two in HK who takes theortical consideration of a room size seriously. I know just too many so call specialist who always build a room first and then add treatment afterwards. One master designer I know explained what step he takes would create what kind of sound prior to the finish touch of a room and believe me, he was spot on every time, it is up to the user what fine touch is needed from various choice. Note: the room is designed for certain hifi equipment in mind and not general purpose. -- It is not my interest to future the discussion from here. The other important factor to reproduce sound is recording. If we talk only about sound quality (not the actual performance by the orchestra or soloist), then there are not too many CD, LP I could choose in my entire LP, CD collection. This number is further reduce if I have to consider the sound quality and the performance of a recording. This is the whole reason I gave up in evaluating music from my collection and decided only to enjoy the music itself. Then if I sit on a good seat during live concert, this has to be the best enjoyment for me. I tend to forget about begin picky about a performance, I do not go to a concert to pick fault by the orchestra, instead I tried to find reason why I should enjoy more for being there. I should not lose my cool with DJ in my earlier post, but I did. I guess I was bias knowing how hard Edo de Waart and the players really tried to make it a successful concert of M6. I was there almost from start of the rehearsal to finish and I can actually hear the improvement throughout. In fact they tried to do better on Saturday concert but sadly they made many mistakes. After all we are human aren't we? Technically, HKPO played perfectly on Friday concert. In a live concert there is no take 2 or 3. This is not commercial CD where mistakes for weak part are taken out and replaced by stronger takes. Some audience that I know do not expect mistakes and took it harshly. I always have a strong word to this. What do you think in regarding to the 'HKPO Live - free CD' give away a few weeks ago? NAR |
NAR 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.138 |
2007-12-01 10:56 |
| [#2553] HKPO/EdW/Mahler 6 NAR, I agree HKPO performance on that night is perfect, their brass have a burnish tone that I found really suit to Mahler. Controversy on intepretation always exist, if you read Gramophone and Penguin guide, you will always find review contrary to each other, the most notable is Zimerman's New recording of Chopin's piano concerto. It was awards Cannes awards,10/10 in classicstoday, recormmended by Gramophone and was my beloved version of Chopin's piano concerto, but it was awarded only one star by Penguin guide. And that is the beauty of music or art in general, if standard of music can be measured, all we need is a checklist but not multiple recoding of a great work. Do share with us more, although opinion might differs, we can see both side of a coins. |
chankaiming 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.106 |
2007-12-01 11:20 |
| [#2554] Chopin Preludes No.20 The best seat I've ever encountered is the one just next to my piano teacher in a little room with a pair of Baldwin upright long time ago. In one occasion, he played Chopin Prelude No.20, a short piece in 13 bars with only 3 setences; marked FF, P and PP (very loud, soft, very soft). His exercise of control on tempo, tone color; tremendous strength on FF, P and even more in PP, to highlight notes played by the little finger for outline of melodic line were deeply printed in my mind. Yes, strength to play the soft passage, like the one I can feel in Giles' playing of the slow movement of Beethoven's Hammerklavier. I was asked to touch the muscle under his thick hand which controls the little finger. It was my first time seeing muscle in a hand which resemble to the upper arm of a muscleman and I was astonished. Recently, I watched a few No.20 in youtube and just listened to Davidovich's playing, none can match the one in my faded memory. I seldom attend concert, listen to recordings on Chopin Preludes nor have much recording on it, I'm eager to have one that can refresh my memory before it is completely gone. I have given up to build up my muscle since a long time ago. To me, attending rehearsal is more interesting than formal performance while listening hifi is a complete different story than live. For example, from the lady playing Paganini in Milsten DVD, you can see/learn how the piece (or each of the note) can be played/improved. 臺上一分鐘,臺下十年; it is always easy to critize than making things happen; and that's life for an artist. Happy listening. Chopin Preludes No.20, a piece I like: http://www.mutopiaproject.org/ftp/ChopinFF/O28/Chop-28-20/Chop-28-20-a4.pdf |
erictang 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.55 |
2007-12-01 16:18 |
| [#2555] HKPO/EdW/Mahler 6 I was there on Friday night. I am just a beginner in attending live concerts and quite naive about classical music. I was sitting on the top left corner of CCCH right above the double bass which might not be ideal at all. However, I just learned to enjoy the atmosphere and live performance of eah and every members of the HKPO. From my limited knowledge and perception, Mahler 6 was very well played! ---------------------------------------------------------- Since I know which seat is good at CCCH, I always have the seat reserved to enjoy the best possible sound from the orchestra. BTW, the few seats that I like are not necessary the most expensive ticket either. ---------------------------------------------------------- NAR, Could you please share with us your "good seats" and its characteristics on orchestration at CCCH. Thanks.:-) |
Sokps 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.14 |
2007-12-01 16:47 |
| [#2556] CCCH seats Sokps, I won't tell you the exact seat allocation that I prefer but I give you some guide line which you cannot go wrong. The best seats in the house are anywhere the second to 4 rows from the balcony near the center. The first row seat upstairs have problems because sound get blocked by the balcony and you may have to lean forward to see the orchestra as well. (By the way, these are expensive seats, I believe the second row and perhaps third from the balcony are also expensive seats, but the forth row aren't). Never to sit under the balcony or up front 4 rows at center stall downstairs. The front gets to see the back side of the conductor and all the sound went above everyone's head. Don't get too close to the orchestra as you will only hear more sound from either side of orchestra depends where you sit. The centre 3 section upstair are great for the new HKPO players seating arrangement especially Edo de Waart's concerts. If the orchestra revert to conventional placement, then you should try the left side of the orchestra where the first violins are. I believe you can hear the double bass better (the conventional placement). [Please Note:, the cello sound cannot project well in CCCH with conventional orchestra placement, the latest HKPO placement works well but it takes some getting used to. (i.e. 1st Violin, cello, double bass, piano on left ---- 2nd violin viola on right), the popular European placement.] Having said that, the above applies to symphonies etc. should there be any violin concertos, then you should get closer to the left side of the orchetra, perhaps directly where you may be able to see ths sound holes of the soloist violin. You will appreciate the seating arrangement this way. Imagine on the left side, you get to see the sound holes from all the string instruments from above and you get better sound (because what you see can be heard as well. But further away still on the left, you get slightly better balance than concentrate of strings sound from both side of the orchestra, and of course depends you mood. Should there be any heavy brass peformance (i.e. Copland - Fanfare ********), the best seat in the house may be right up the top in the VIP box. I once bought all 10 seats through special request for my special guests. The cheap seats are the second row from the top at the center where you get the reflected sound from the back wall and result can be amazing. The sound from these cheap seats are almost equally as good as the VIP box at the center. I hope information help. Cheers, this is a great site to share info. I must sign off indefinitely. I will be away to follow where good live performance music are. NAR |
NAR 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.138 |
2007-12-01 20:08 |
| [#2557] CCCH seats NAR, Thank you very much for your experience sharing and it is very informative.:-) I fully agree that as I could not see the double bass, I did not hear much of its sound on Friday night. I sincerely hope that you would continue to share your music knowledge and experience with us in future. Cheers! Samson |
Sokps 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.14 |
2007-12-01 22:15 |
| [#2558] Lupu 邊個邊個 hing: First Decca Digital LP is New Year Concert 1979?? I also have Kodranshin/VPO Dvorak No.9 Digital.. great! |
hercules 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.246 |
2007-12-01 23:23 |
| [#2559] HKPO / EdW / M6 Con't NAR, CKM, George and others First if all, thank you for the discussion that stemmed from the recent HKPO/EdW Mahler 6 concert. It has given much colour and insights to this thread and as a reader, I am much delighted to see exchanges of views by fellow music lovers. I do not intend to comment on the performance any further, as I did not attend the concert. Nevertheless, I find that this discussion has raised three interesting questions that I think would deserve further discussion. My intention here is to try to share my humble views on these three questions. 1. HKPO under EdW The discussion on the M6 performance has brought out a bigger topic on how HKPO is doing under EdW. This is a very good question because as a taxpayer, we should be concerned, and more so as a music loving taxpayer. The basic question - has standard improved under EdW? The answer must be yes. Although the HKPO is still far from being a world-class orchestra and when performing complicated/demanding symphonies like Mahler's, it can sound pretty rough (e.g. the M3 performance), the orchestra now plays with much better discipline and flexibility. It has definitely come a long way comparing with the Sam Wong and the Atherton eras. It is also becoming more innovative on the program – the Beethoven, Mahler series, the Mozarts and Haydns, and the concert performances of operas are good examples. Modern works are also featured. There are things like contrasts, tone colour, dynamics etc that the orchestra needs to be more consistent, but as an audience, I'm more happy now than before. If standard has improved, program has improved, and even attendance has improved, then what is there to complain about? I'd probably say one thing – the off-stage situation - EdW has installed his team to HK (players and management). He tried (but failed) to get the Perth position. He moved his family to the US. He is also drilling the players very very hard - replacing them when necessary. All these have given rise to the perception that whilst EdW continues his firm control on both on- and off- stage matters, he is not fully committed to HK. Although his new contract ties him to 2012, I'm not aware of his required length of stay with the HKPO under this new contract, which is very important. If it is too short, then the question on his commitment (and effectiveness during his second tenure) remains. If his off-stage control is needed to improve the standard, then be it, but his length of stay in each season of his second tenure should be reasonably long/meaningful, otherwise, taxpayers' money may not be well-spent for his extension (afterall, EdW is very expensive). That said, I support our orchestra, and have subscribed season tickets from this 07/08 season. 2. “Best Seat” at CCCH A long discussion went on regarding the "best-seat" at CCCH. Whilst I agree that having a good seat can enhance the enjoyment at the concert (and every concertgoer would like to sit in a “good” rather than a “bad” seat), I don't think it is the essential factor in a live performance. In fact, I sometimes think that it is not really that important. There is a fundamental difference between listening to a recording and attending a live performance. I tend to see concerts as experience of live music making. In a concert, one sees the interaction between musicians, feels their charisma, swallows the notes they play, absorbs the ambience, and becomes part of the music making process. One could miss out the complete picture if too much focus is placed in trying to locate the source of sound, or if the emphasis is that the sound of every single instrument must be heard. A good performance is not dependent on where one sits. It depends on how well the musicians perform. If the performance is good, it doesn’t matter whether one sits in the front stall or in the choir stall. Likewise, missing the sound of an instrument, for example, would not turn a good performance bad. That's why I think fixating too much on the “best seat” could actually be a distraction to music enjoyment at concerts. Whilst, I do not deny that sitting in a “better” seat could enhance the experience, it should not be an overriding factor. 3. Interpretation Comparison There is also a discussion on how EdW's interpretation differs from some of the well-known recordings. Whilst many of us would compare a live concert with recordings that we like, I always have doubt the benefits of this process. The reason being, live music and recordings are simply different. Live performance is the momentary experience of emotions. It is a living spontaneous activity that cannot be repeated. Recordings are recorded sound that can be replayed. This distinction is important because one gets familiarize with recordings by listening repeatedly. However, it is not possible in a live concert to do it because it cannot be repeated. In concert, one is witnessing the happening of music. Therefore, I do not believe that one can actually remember how a piece is played or interpreted in a concert. One would only have an impression on how the performance went. This process traps concert audience into spending effort to find similarities between what is being performed in front of him with his favourite version of recording, and of course, there won’t be any as the circumstances under which the music is produced (or reproduced in the case of recordings) are different. When finding no similarities, one could easily get disappointed by the live performance, hence diminishes the enjoyment that should have been derived from the concert. Minpin |
minpin 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.116 |
2007-12-02 05:17 |
| [#2560] HKPO / EdW / M6 Con't Minpin Thank for your indepth elaboration, you put forward a wider perspective to let us thinking about what EDW shall fulfill his commitment in the next 5 years. I also opine that a offstage situation does influence the impression of public whether EDW has made a full commitment to HKPO (not necessarily to HKSAR), whether he wishes to contribute more time and effort upon enhancing HKPO in respect of the performance consistency and technical stability, I do wish that HKPO shall ascend to the league of world-class orchestra in Asia, if we are pround of HK being an International Asian City. Does our HKSAR government ever listen to EDW's advice about the Western Kowloon Culture Center project? Your comment about "king seat" is also worthy my further elaboration, as you said, the good seat can enhance the enjoyment at the live concert but not a determining factor in a live performance. Absolutely agreed! There must be more than one "king seat" at cultural center, instead of only one at your home listening area. However we should pay more attention to the performance of artists, their style and their quality of music-making (as NAR said, fully enjoy at the time of listening the music itself), would it be a bit absurd to pay attention on the Hi-Fi elements such as position of instrument, imaging, ambience? ... Come on! we are listening to a lifelike, once-and-only, unduplicated and unrepeated music-making experience, what we heard in orchestral recording has been artificially processed and manipulated by the recording and balance engineers, instead of the ultimate intention of conductor who wants to express (that why Karajan who is a control freak actually "produced" the recording and the so-called "karajan sound" by keen participation in his late years productions, he wished us to hear his artistic conception and virtuosity). The placement of microphone(s) in orchestral recording ("Canned music") is usually located over the head of orchestra members and conductor, what the virtual effect you hear in your "king seat" at home is indeed the position of microphone (probably readjusted by the means of Equalization and dynamic compression which is ultimately determined and controlled by the taste and preference of balance engineer or production director), would you actually sit over the heads of orchestra and conductor to listen music-making in a live concert? if so .... must be a hilarious and ridiculous picture ! :} As minpin correctly indicates, the quality and skill of musicians determines how good performance it is, not exclusively because of your seat. Now we should understand why the legendary crank Sergiu Celibidache and genius Carlos Kleiber both hated recordings so much and made such a rare quantity of "canned music" to feed us , no matter how hungry our music lovers are ! Minpin, you exactly say what I failed to say in my previous posts, good observation and perspective! Million thanks! George |
george1977 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.248 |
2007-12-02 09:41 |
| [#2561] HKPO / EdW / M6 Con't Minpin Did EDW ever conduct HKPO to play the full cycle of Rachmaninov Symphonies ? I am longing for his live concert, would NAR help us to convey a message suggesting Maestro and HKPO to play it ? Apart from the famous recording of Sanderling (DGG) and Jansons (EMI) accounts, I love EDW's rendition and reading of rachmaninov symphonies so much in Exton SACD issue (one more previous issue by Philips for his collaboration with Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra), a sonic blockbuster and music enjoyment! Highly recommended to all Rachmaninov orchestral freak! George  |
george1977 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.166 |
2007-12-02 11:18 |
| [#2562] Listening to EDW's recording... The following CD is a reissue of Oboe Concertos played by Holliger with EDW and New Philharmonic Orchestra in 1972 (Philips UCCP 9520 or UCCP 3145), an account with chamber-like intimacy, warmth and sweetness, my all-time favourite to test your gear's transparency in terms of treble and midrange as well as micro dynamic and harmonics, the recording quality itself is first rate and their effortless playing really wins my repeated acclaim!the sound of oboe really lingers on ..... Highly recommended! George  |
george1977 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.166 |
2007-12-02 11:37 |
| [#2563] Listening to EDW's recording... The following compilation encompasses some of the best oboe recording played by Heinz Holliger, his collaboration with EDW in Mozart Oboe Concerto is simply outrageous and fantastic! Philips Japan UCCP 9520  |
george1977 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.166 |
2007-12-02 11:44 |
| [#2564] HKPO / EdW / M6 Con't Goerge, You have a chance in 2008 , de Waarts will have a concert with HKPO on Rachmaninov symphony NO.3 amd Prokofiev piano concerto No 2 with Yundi Li as soloist. http://www.hkpo.com/eng/concerts_and_ticket/concerts/concertdetail.jsp?id=53  |
chankaiming 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.106 |
2007-12-02 11:45 |
| [#2565] Listening to EDW's recording... Another account which EDW collaborated with Lupu in Brahms' Piano Concertos recording, forget about how well Gilels, Richter, Curzon ever played, Lupu should not be underrated for his playing in Brahms piano music! CKM Thanks for your information! highly anticipated! Still I hope EDW can conduct the full cycle of Rachmaninov Symphonies and other orchestral works! George  |
george1977 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.166 |
2007-12-02 11:51 |
| [#2566] 古典迷飲茶吹水會II 古典迷飲茶吹水會II Date: 16 December 2007 ( Sunday ) Time: 1:30pm Location: 雅苑酒家, 火炭火車站銀禧閣商場 (table reserved under Mr Chan, 12 person estimated) Map:http://www.ckharcades.com/ck_chi/EAI/JCSC/jcsc.htm Topic: What are your favorite melody/movement (Please bring along a CD of your favorite tunes/melody/movement by your favorite perfromers to share with us on that day) Please sign up: 1.Chankaiming 2.邊個邊個 3.kh 4.George1977 (I hope I can make it finally!) 5.Sokps (welcome, please check pm ) 6.ck2005 (welcome, please check pm ) 7. chowhwk (welcome, please check pm ) 8. erictang 9. 10. 11. 12. Perhaps some Mahler 9 after the yumcha. Sure, we can compare the versions one after one! |
chankaiming 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.106 |
2007-12-02 13:07 |
| [#2567] 古典迷飲茶吹水會II 2/12 傅聰演奏會中encore is what music? Pls advise. Ken1967 |
ken1967 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.22 |
2007-12-03 11:10 |
| [#2568] 古典迷飲茶吹水會II 早晨... 繽紛熱鬧而富旋律的ballet音樂， 幾段富異國情調引人入勝。  |
邊個邊個 正式會員 158.xxx.xxx.114 |
2007-12-04 09:07 |
