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| [#3056] McIntosh test CD/SACD I have the good fortune of having before me now two different copies of the "McIntosh Audiophile Test Reference": (1) CD; McIntosh-8007; released 2002; made in USA; 24K gold disc; 24/96 digital mastering. (2) SACD; TopMusic 8007.2; released 2004; made in Japan by Sony; Direct SBM; DSD; Non-distortoin Technology; High Precision Mastering. I have just treated myself to a blind listening test of a number of tracks. I don't have an SACD player, but since the SACD disc is in hybrid, I think it's reasonable to suppose that the test remains largely a fair one. It's still an apple to apple comparison. The CD layer of an SACD, enhanced with DSD etc, should be as good as, if not better than, the plain CD. I would further venture to suppose that I represent the majority of listeners, audiophiles or not, being only CD player-owning,. The result: the CD wins out in every track I have blind tested -- clearer, finer, and with real punch, notably in Starker's rendition of Kodaly's Duo for Violin and Cello. The problem is, the ordinary CD version is no more, replaced by the SACD and DVD-Audio editions. Now, when the SACD replacements do not necessarily mean improvements, will record companies be so kind as to restore decent CD versions of good music into circulation? We all regret, for instance, the deletion of Denon Mastersonic 20 bit versions of Polydor's Canto pops CDs (the "88" series), don't we? I have the misfortune to learn, after the blind test, that the overwhelmingly better sounding one is the CD -- one which I borrowed from a library, and the decidedly inferior one is the SACD that made me $190 poorer yesterday. |
trollope 正式會員202.xxx.xxx.193 |
2005-03-13 18:54 | |
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| [#3057] McIntosh test CD/SACD ++++++++++++++++ Thanks for sharing, Trollope. It makes me think twice about SACD. ++++++++++++++++ |
Tanuski 正式會員 69.xxx.xxx.10 |
2005-03-13 20:38 |
| [#3058] Jacqueline Du Pre (must buy) Hi DX7770, Elgar Cello Concerto is the must buy recommendation. |
supera 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.137 |
2005-03-13 21:17 |
| [#3059] Jacqueline Du Pre (must buy) Somewhat tempted by this recent issue: Beethoven: Triple Concerto & Brahms: Double Concerto Wolfgang Schneiderhan / Pierre Fournier / Géza Anda / Radio-Symphonie-Orchester Berlin / Ferenc Fricsay DG (The Originals) 477 534-1 I have not bought it yet because: (a) the music isn't that brilliant as we have come to expect from the two Bs; (b) direct duplication of my EMI "Great Recordings of the Century" account featuring another stellar line-up of Oistrakh / Rostropovich / Richter / Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra / Cleveland Orchestra / Karajan / Szell Any brief comments will be useful. Thx. |
trollope 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.193 |
2005-03-13 22:09 |
| [#3060] Jacqueline Du Pre (must buy) I have old CBS 'newspaper' version of Brahms double concerto. performed by Francescatti/Fournier, conducted by Bruno Walter. I think it is quite worthy to own as alternative to GROC version. Attached version should be easier to find.  |
kcm 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.136 |
2005-03-13 22:25 |
| [#3061] Triple / Double Thanks kcm. |
trollope 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.193 |
2005-03-13 22:40 |
| [#3062] Triple / Double ++++++++++++++++++++++++ I think the“Oistrakh , Rostropovich, Richter, Karajan”combo really rocks! ++++++++++++++++++++++++  |
Tanuski 正式會員 69.xxx.xxx.10 |
2005-03-13 23:28 |
| [#3063] Triple / Double Hi Tanuski, Interestingly, Richter holds that this recording is an utter failure, and he disowns it. He thinks that Karajan is to blame. And on the cover photo, he has this to say, "what a nauseating photograph it is, with him posting artfully and the rest of us grinning like idiots." |
trollope 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.193 |
2005-03-13 23:40 |
| [#3064] Triple / Double +++++++++++++++++ Trollope, You took me by surprise, a good surprise! So I was force to listen to the CD once more and to read text again. The guy who wrote that small paragraph, Michael Jameson may be, never mentioned about the disapproval of Richter on the recording. Consider the recording date, Sept. 1969; Karajan should still have enough grip of himself. Again in the album, I do not hear any“unhappy”performance from Richter either. Now you have to tell me where you find the harsh word of Richter? Would he be pissed because Karajan sat in front of the piano instead of him? +++++++++++++++++ |
Tanuski 正式會員 69.xxx.xxx.10 |
2005-03-14 01:52 |
| [#3065] Triple / Double Hi Supera, Is it this one? http://www.jacquelinedupre.net/discographies/cd10.htm |
DX7770 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.214 |
2005-03-14 09:24 |
| [#3066] Karajan said - In that case I'm a Chinaman Richter's account of the recording session of Beethoven's Triple Concerto, with Oistrakh, Rostropovich, and Richter, and Karajan conducting the BPO: "David Oistrakh and Rostropovich, Rostropovich and me, Oistrakh and me -- we'd all played together on frequent occasions, but never all three of us at once. The first time we found ourselves sharing the same platform was in Moscow, for Beethoven's Triple Concerto. It was a good concert. And it was clearly an attractive billing, as we were then invited to record the work with Karajan, with whom each of us had already worked on his own. It's a dreadful recording and I disown it utterly. As for the actual recording sessions, I remember them only as a total nightmare. Battle lines were drawn up with Karajan and Rostropovich on the one side and Oistrakh and me on the other. Rostropovich was falling over himself in his attempts to do everything Karajan wanted, whereas Karajan had a superficial and clearly wrong-headed view of a work that has never had a good press but of which I'm personally very fond. Among other things, the second movement was taken far too slowly. He held back the natural flow of the music. He was faking it, and neither Oistrakh nor I had any time for this. But Rostropovich had gone over to the enemy, trying to push himself forward, whereas what he has to play here is no more than figurations. Karajan could see I wasn't happy and that Oistrakh was sulking. He asked why. I was intentionally remaining in the background, not so much to annoy him, but because I found Rostropovich so exasperating. "Suddenly Karajan decided that everything was fine and that the recording was finished. I demanded an extra take. 'No, no,' he replied, 'we haven't got time, we've got to do the photographs.' To him, this was more important than the recording. And what a nauseating photograph it is, with him posing artfully and the rest of us grinning like idiots. "On the whole, Karajan's behaviour was not particularly attractive. One day, while we were talking, I happened to say 'Ich bin ein Deutscher' (I'm a German)*, to which he replied: 'Also, ich bin ein Chineser' (In that case, I'm a Chinaman)." From Bruno Monsaingeon (tr. Stewart Spencer), "Sviatoslav Richter: Notebooks and Conversations" (Princeton: Princeton University Press, 2001), p.118. * Richter's paternal grandfather was a German. (trollope's note) The following page goes on to talk about the Tchaikovsky concerto with Karajan. Do you want me to go on? |
trollope 正式會員 147.xxx.xxx.130 |
2005-03-14 15:33 |
| [#3067] Karajan said - In that case I'm a Chinaman Dear trollope: Go on please, thanks. To DX7770: Is this one.  |
classicalkan 正式會員 158.xxx.xxx.36 |
2005-03-14 17:02 |
| [#3068] Karajan said - In that case I'm a Chinaman Here you are, Richter vs. Karajan: "But there are other things I can't forgive him. In our recording of the Tchaikovsky Concerto, there's a disgraceful mistake that's due entirely to his own pig-headedness. It's in the second movement, when the main theme returns after the cadenza. He stopped conducting, although I'd specifically asked him to give me the upbeat. He obstinately refused to do what I wanted, which was no more than rhythmic precision. The result was this mistake, an absolute abomination." (p.121) It's a pity that Richter's most widely available Tchaikovsky concerto is this one, recorded in 1962 with Karajan conducting the Vienna Symphony Orchestra ((DG "The Originals" 447 420-2, attractively coupled with Rachmaninov's second). Among the four versions of Richter's Tchaikovsky that I have, his recording with Mravinsky conducting the Leningrad Philharmonic stands out. I am quite sure that given the chance to A-B compare it with the Karajan, anybody can tell that this is a superior performance. I have both the Music & Arts (CD-776) and the Philips (464 381-2) issues of this occasion on 24 July 1958. The Ancerl / Czech Philharmonic (r.1954) and the Rachlin / USSR State Symphony Orchestra (r.1957) accounts also pale in comparison with the Mravinsky, a conductor Richter always enjoyed working with. There is a fifth commercially available recording that Richter has done -- with Kondrashin and the Moscow State Symphony Orchestra (r.1968). I have yet to find it. |
trollope 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.193 |
2005-03-14 17:51 |
| [#3069] Karajan said - In that case I'm a Chinaman 係未呢隻?  |
lym 正式會員 167.xxx.xxx.10 |
2005-03-14 18:25 |
| [#3070] Jacqueline Du Pre (must buy) Hi, DX7770, I refer this one. I read book, internet and also got suggestion by CD sales that Elgar Cello Concerto is the Masterpiece of Jacgueline Du Pre. Basically I only have one version of Elgar Cello Concerto so I have no AB comparison. But before I bought it, I saw recommendation from Gramophone and from Hi Fi magazine. It said that this version is new and already applied ART method to improve the sound quality, the old version can be put into reclamation area. Believe it or not? |
supera 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.197 |
2005-03-14 20:48 |
| [#3071] Jacqueline Du Pre (must buy) http://www.towerrecords.com/product.aspx?pfid=3078411 |
supera 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.186 |
2005-03-14 20:49 |
| [#3072] Karajan said - In that case I'm a Chinaman ++++++++++++++++++++++ Hi Trollope, Thanks for the info. Seems like a good story. The Bruno Monsaingeon: Sviatoslav Richter: Notebooks and Conversations, is it a good reader? Worth getting a copy? ++++++++++++++++++++++ |
Tanuski 正式會員 69.xxx.xxx.10 |
2005-03-14 21:13 |
| [#3073] Karajan said - In that case I'm a Chinaman You may wish to sample its pages in the Amazon site. There are paperback editions from both US's Princeton University Press and England's Faber and Faber. The book is a fascinating read and serves as an excellent introduction to Richter. It is a must if your interest in the pianist has been aroused by the DVD "Richter: The Enigma" (Warner). This rich selection of Richter's opinion on himself, and on music and musicians shows the vitality and peculiarity of one of history's greatest keyboard giants. His observations and comments pulse with the authentic flavour of a genius, a lonely and honest man. He has an original mind, and he thinks and sees without regard to convention. All in all, the book is a treasury of reminiscences and reflections of uncommon interest. But my friend, be warned: you are seeking advice from a biased man, who thinks Richter plays everything specially for him when his CDs are being played. |
trollope 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.193 |
2005-03-14 22:33 |
| [#3074] Karajan said - In that case I'm a Chinaman Thanks, trollope. |
classicalkan 正式會員 222.xxx.xxx.79 |
2005-03-14 23:00 |
| [#3075] Karajan said - In that case I'm a Chinaman Hi Supera & Classicalkan, Thank for your advice. Supera, I will look for a new version. |
DX7770 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.214 |
2005-03-15 09:46 |
