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| [#3257] DG: West Germany vs. UK versions It's a fact known to classical music lovers that for quite sometime in the past, some Deutsche Grammophon CDs with "Made in West Germany" printed on the back inlays were found to have these words printed on the CDs: "Made in U.K." I have a handful of these in my collection. They have never been exactly unpleasant surprises for me, as I imagine made-in-UK DGs are, after all, not made-in-Korea Philips', which you know are inferior before you actually play the discs. A few hours ago I had the chance to conduct a West Germany vs. UK blind test of a famous DG recording: Emil Gilels' Hammerklavier Sonata, which has for more than two decades been held as one of the best, if not the best (410 527-2). The result: I could not make out which is which, and so no preference can be made. The German CD was released probably in 1987, and the UK one perhaps a bit later. I wish I could hear how the original 1983 LP sounds, as the West Germany and the UK editions are identical in more ways than one: the piano timbre is too bright and too hard, and the reverberant bloom is hardly truthful, so much so that seventeen years ago the Penguin Guide had this to say about the recording, "hearing Gilels play the work in London in 1984 left one in no doubt that there is more to the sound he produced in real life than the overlit quality the DG engineers have achieved." And then I took out a third DG edition from the 8-CD set Beethoven piano sonatas by Gilels released in 1996 (453 221-2), enhanced with "Original-image bit-processing". Whatever that means, the improvement is a stark reality. The touch of hardness is still there, but there is a full-bodied presence to match the grandeur of Beethoven + Gilels. So, my friends, caution has to be exercised in investing in premium-priced "Made in West Germany first CD edition", except that you feel you have to spend the money for nostalgic reasons, or for a front cover printing or photo of rare distinction. If the latter is your case in Gilels's Beethoven Piano Sonata No.29, op.106 "Hammerklavier", spend your money on this one from DG's mid-priced "Originals" series: 463 639-2. Apart from better sound, you are offered as a bonus the sonata no.28. |
trollope 正式會員202.xxx.xxx.105 |
2005-04-22 21:21 | |
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| [#3258] DG: West Germany vs. UK versions Yes! I came to the same conclusion some time ago. The only reason to by " silver circle CDs " or "Made in West Germany" CDs for me is usually because it is a delted CD and cannot be found in the catalogue anymore. However, in some instances, the CD has actually resurfaced in different guise which I latter found out...... |
jonyung 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.164 |
2005-04-22 22:06 |
| [#3259] DG: West Germany vs. UK versions 西德版 CD 已是樂迷的收藏物!!! |
cande 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.197 |
2005-04-22 23:49 |
| [#3260] DG: West Germany vs. UK versions The notion that "West Germany versions" are valuable should be based on the fact that they have succumbed to the deletion axe, and on the unlikely prospect of their being re-issued. They can indeed be collector's items as objects of historical and even aesthetic importance, because they are first editions, or because of the cover paintings or photos, or the packaging ... etc. But these are considerations that have very little to do with the music in the CDs, and hence the pleasure to be had when the CDs are played. If you cannot prove to me that they are better, or let's say even equal, sound carriers compared with their re-issued counterparts, I think we should see them for what they really are: products of early stage technology in digital transference. Of course they can also be seen as lucrative business opportunities for second-hand music dealers. |
trollope 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.105 |
2005-04-23 00:53 |
| [#3261] DG: West Germany vs. UK versions ______________________________________ Thanks for the tip, Trollope! I am always absent minded and never pay attention to such issue. Now that you have mentioned it, will be caution in the future. ______________________________________ |
Tanuski 正式會員 69.xxx.xxx.10 |
2005-04-23 08:51 |
| [#3262] DG: West Germany vs. UK versions Hi Trollope , All, I have random checked a few CDs I bought in the early day (~1990), 3 of them (DGG) are having sliver color of the outer edge corroded. 2 of them are made in korea, production place of the third one is not printed. I think some r33 fans had mentioned this problem before. The is another defect called 'Bronzed' CDs as below http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/ About pressing, I have tested in my friend's place on DGG Accardo Paganini violin concerto No.1 LP ; an Italian pressed box set and a single disc German pressed. Sonically, the German pressed is richer in bass, but from musical point of view, I see it is not a big deal; unless as my friend mentions to me before that soundstage of some (DGG??) English or Australian pressed CD is compressed when compare to the German one. Although I do not have any CD sample for A/B comparision so far. A few weeks ago, I listen to the Rachmaninoff concerto no.3 (Horowitz/ormandy) LP and there are a number of wrong notes. On the 24/96 remastering CD, there printed 'for technical reasons, some portions of the concerto were recorded following the concert'. I wonder if the re-recording is a studio session to correct the wrong notes; anyway I don't have a chance to listen to it yet. |
erictang 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.244 |
2005-04-23 13:41 |
| [#3263] Richter Trollope Have you got the Richter collection by tnc music? jon |
jonyung 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.221 |
2005-04-24 14:58 |
| [#3264] Richter on About six months before Shun Cheong Record put this 17-CD set on sale in Hong Kong, I bought it at Tower Records, Shibuya, Tokyo (probably the bigger classical music shop in Asia) at 20,989 yen (tax incl.). I was made instantly a lot poorer in that early summer afternoon in 2003, but has since been a whole lot happier. Sviatoslav Richter Live in Kiev (TNC CD-H1461/76B, released 2002) is in every sense a treasure trove. Let's take a brief survey of its content. Volume 1: CD-H1461 1958, Philharmonic Hall Moussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition Mozart: Piano Sonata No. 8 in A minor, K.310 Rachmaninov: 2 Preludes (op. 32, no. 12 & op. 23, no. 5) 1958 Philharmonic Hall Schumann: Fantasia in C major, op. 17 (1st and 2nd movements) Volume 2: CD-H1462 1958 Philharmonic Hall Schumann: Fantasia in C major, op. 17 (3rd movement) Debussy: Prelude V, Book I (Les collines d'Anacapri) Chopin: Mazurka No. 15, op. 24, no. 2 1959 Philharmonic Hall Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 7 in D major, op. 10, no. 3 Beethoven: 8 Bagatelles (from opp. 33, 119, 126) Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 12 in A flat major, op. 26 Volume 3: CD-H1463 1959 Philharmonic Hall Beethoven: Sonata No. 23 in F minor, op. 57 "Appassionata" Schumann: Fantastic Pieces, op. 12, no. 2 Schubert: Impromptu in A flat major, op. 90, no. 4 March 3, 1960 Philharmonic Hall Haydn: Piano Sonata No. 1 in E flat major, H. XVI: 49 Chopin: Ballade No. 1 in G minor, op. 23 Chopin: Five Etudes, op. 10, nos. 1, 3, 4, 10, & 12 Volume 4: CD-H1464 March 3, 1960, Philharmonic Hall Rachmaninov: Ten Preludes (Nos. 1, 2, 8 from op. 23 and Nos. 1, 2, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12 from op. 32) Rachmaninov: Three Preludes (Nos. 4, 5, 7 from op. 23) March 5, 1960, Philharmonic Hall Chopin: The Four Ballades Volume 5: CD-H1465 March 5, 1960, Philharmonic Hall Chopin: Polonaise-Fantaisie, op. 61 July 16, 1960, Philharmonic Hall Haydn: Sonata No. 22 in C minor, H. XVI: 20 (first 2 movements only, 3rd mvt is lost) Schumann: Novelette in F sharp minor, op. 21, no. 8 Prokofiev: Sonata No. 6 in A major, op. 82 Prokofiev: Ten Vision fugitives, op. 22 (1915-17) Volume 6: CD-H1466 July 16, 1960, Philharmonic Hall Prokofiev: from Three Pieces, Op. 59 (Pastoral Sonatina and Dumy) July 10, 1962, Great Hall of the Conservatory Handel: Suite No. 5 in E major Hindemith: Piano Sonata No. 1 in A major Prokofiev: Ten Vision fugitives, op. 22 (1915-17) Prokofiev: Dance and Waltz from Four Pieces, op. 32 Prokofiev: Gavotte from Cinderella, op. 95 Prokofiev: Valse from the opera War & Peace Prokofiev: Vision fugitives, op. 22 no. 20 Volume 7: CD-H1467 July 10, 1962, Great Hall of the Conservatory Prokofiev: Piano Sonata No. 6 in A major, op. 82 Debussy: Jardins sous la pluie from Estampes July 11, 1962, Great Hall of the Conservatory Schumann: Piano Sonata No. 2 in G minor, op. 22 Schumann: Faschingsschwank aus Wien, op. 26 Volume 8: CD-H1468 July 11, 1962, Great Hall of the Conservatory Chopin: Polonaise-Fantaisie, op. 61 Debussy: Estampes Scriabin: Piano Sonata No. 5, op. 53 Chopin: Etude No. 1 in C major, op. 10 (Allegro) Rachmaninov: Prelude No. 12 in G sharp minor, op. 32 June 9, 1963, Philharmonic Hall Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 9 in E major, op. 14, no. 1 Beethove: Piano Sonata No. 10 in G major, op. 14, no. 2 Volume 9: CD-H1469 June 9, 1963, Philharmonic Hall Beethoven: Sonata No. 11 in B flat major, op. 22 Shostakovich: 7 Preludes & Fugues from op. 87 (1950-51) Volume 10: CD-H1470 April 2, 1964, Philharmonic Hall Grieg: Piano Concerto in A minor, op. 16 State Symphony Orchestra of Ukrainian SSR / Stepan Turchak April 15, 1964, Philharmonic Hall Schubert: Piano Sonata No. 13 in A Major, Op. 120, D.664 Schubert: 3 Klavierstücke, D.946 (nos. 2 & 3) Volume 11: CD-H1471 April 15, 1964, Philharmonic Hall Schubert: Piano Sonata No. 21 in B flat major (1st movement is lost), D.960 Schubert: Impromptu in G major, D.899 Schubert: 11 Waltzes from Waltzes and Ecossaises, D.145 Schubert: Allegretto in C minor, D.915 July 24, 1965, Great Hall of Conservatory Mozart: Piano Sonata No. 2 in F major, K.280 Volume 12: CD-H1472 July 24, 1965, Great Hall of Conservatory Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 18 in E flat major op. 31, no. 3 Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 28 in A major, op. 101 Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 31 in A flat major, op. 110 Volume 13: CD-H1473 July 25, 1965, Great Hall of the Conservatory Schubert: Piano Sonata No. 9 in B major, D.575 Brahms: 4 Pieces, op. 119 Liszt: Piano Sonata in B minor Volume 14: CD-H1474 September 21, 1967, Philharmonic Hall Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 7 in D major, op. 10, no. 3 Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 17 in D minor, op. 31, no. 2 "Tempest" Schubert: Impromptus, D.899 Schubert: Fantasia in C major, D.76 Volume 15: CD-H1475 May 25, 1982, Philharmonic Hall Dvorák: Piano Quintet No. 1 in A major, op. 5 Dvorák: Piano Quintet No. 2 in A major, op. 81 The Borodin Quartet Volume 16A: CD-H1476A September 17 & 18, 1982, Philharmonic Hall Liszt: 2 Pieces from Harmonies poétiques et réligieuses Liszt: Ave Maria ("Die Glocken von Rom"), S.182 Franck: Prelude, Chorale & Fugue Volume 16B: CD-H1476B September 17 & 18, 1982, Philharmonic Hall Shostakovich: Sonata for Viola and Piano, op. 147 (with Yuri Bashmet) Szymanowski: Piano Sonata No. 2, p. 21 |
trollope 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.105 |
2005-04-24 16:27 |
| [#3265] Richter on TNC Sorry about the two typing errors in the 1st paragraph. I have re-typed it here: About six months before Shun Cheong Record put this 17-CD set on sale in Hong Kong, I bought it at Tower Records, Shibuya, Tokyo (probably the biggest classical music shop in Asia) at 20,989 yen (tax incl.). I was made instantly a lot poorer in that early summer afternoon in 2003, but have since been a whole lot happier. |
trollope 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.105 |
2005-04-24 16:43 |
| [#3266] Richter on TNC Oh good! I have resisted buying them for the first time in 2003, again while I was in Tower records Tokyo ( Gosh! I love that place! ) and again in HK due to price differentials. Then , it was not availabel for some time around 2004 ? due to copyright issues with Dorliac et al For those interested in the complete set, its still on sale in TNC Trollope, please do not look up the site for your own good! BTW, where's you spelling error and may I ask another question: Does the Brilliant Classics green box set of Richter contain anything new? Thanks |
jonyung 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.221 |
2005-04-24 17:11 |
| [#3267] Richter on Brilliant Classics Historic Russian Archives: Sviatoslav Richter in Concert Brilliant Classics 92229: ADD 2004 (5 CDs) I bought this set nine months ago at HK$182.3 -- tremendous value for money. My comments are inside the square brackets, and importance (historical only) of individual pieces is indicated by two asterisks, one asterisk, or no asterisk. Disc 1 1. Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 27 [Comment: r. 10 Jan 1965 – the earliest commercially available SR version. Not previously released.]** 2. Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 30 [Comment: r. 22 Jan 1972 – the same in Yedang YCC-0033] 3. Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 31 [Comment: r. 10 Oct 1965 – the same in Yedang YCC-0033] 4. Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 32 [Comment: r. 12 Jan 1975 – the same in Yedang YCC-0033] Disc 2 1. Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 4 [Comment: r. 12 Jan 1975 – the earliest commercially available SR version, previously released by Music & Arts and Kings Records, both difficult to get now]* 2. Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 17 "Tempest" [Comment: r. 10 Oct 1965 – a version not previously released]** 3. Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 18 [Comment: r. 10 Oct 1965 – a version not previously released]** Disc 3 1. Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 3 [Comment: r. 12 Jan 1975 – previously released by Music & Arts and Kings Records, both difficult to get now]* 2. Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 28 [Comment: r. 10 Oct 1965 – a version not previously released]** 3. Liszt: Piano Sonata in B minor [Comment: r. 12 Oct 1965 – a version not previously released]** Disc 4 1. Schubert: Piano Sonata No. 21 in B flat major, D.960 [Comment: r. 31 Nov 1961 – the earliest commercially available SR version. Not previously released.]** 2. Schubert: Piano Sonata No. 9 in B major, D.575 [Comment: r. 12 Oct 1965 – the earliest commercially available SR version. Not previously released.]** Disc 5 1. Schubert: Piano Sonata No. 6 in E minor, D.566 [Comment: r. 3 May 1978 – a version not previously released]** 2. Schubert: Piano Sonata No. 18 in G major, D.894 [Comment: r.3 May 1978 – the earliest commercially available SR version. Not previously released.]** 3. Schubert: Allegretto in C major, D.915 [Comment: r. 3 May 1978 – the most recent commercially available SR version. Not previously released.]** PS. Hi Jon, indeed there are two errors in my original first paragraph, "up with which I cannot put" (as Winston Churchill famously puts it). |
trollope 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.105 |
2005-04-24 18:16 |
| [#3268] Richter on Brilliant Classics trollope, Oh! You got Brilliant Classics' release of Richter box-set! I want to buy it yesterday from Shun Cheong. However, I got some other goodies from Do-Re-Mi, so I've to defer it to some time later. To all guys, Besides, Brilliant has a box-set of Gilels. It's in my priority list too. It includes Gilels' playing of Beethoven Piano Concertos.....really interesting. You may go to Brilliants site to go through the pieces that it includes: http://www.brilliantclassics.com/  |
DL 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.91 |
2005-04-24 18:51 |
| [#3269] Richter on Brilliant Classics Thanks so much , Trollope Thanks for taking the time to look up and type in all the nice information. Guess I missed the Brilliant Classics as well! One "not previously released" Schubert by Richter would be more than worthwhile to go for the box! BTW, got the ankh richter ?? jon |
jonyung 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.246 |
2005-04-24 18:59 |
| [#3270] Do-Re-Mi Records Some goodies that I got yesterday, want to share with you guys:  |
DL 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.91 |
2005-04-24 18:59 |
| [#3271] Do-Re-Mi Records 2nd one:  |
DL 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.91 |
2005-04-24 19:00 |
| [#3272] Do-Re-Mi Records And Primose:  |
DL 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.91 |
2005-04-24 19:01 |
| [#3273] Do-Re-Mi Records Another version of Beethoven Triple Concerto:  |
DL 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.91 |
2005-04-24 19:03 |
| [#3274] Testament Final one: Barbirolli conducting Mahler 6 (Testament)....  |
DL 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.91 |
2005-04-24 19:07 |
| [#3275] Richter on Doremi Hi DL, I have checked in the Doremi site (http://www.doremi.com/richter.html) and found that I am an owner of all their Richter issues except one, that means I own altogether ten of them. The missing item is the double CD (DHR 7731/2) of the complete Beethoven cello sonatas played by SR and Rostropovich. I have not bought them because (a) I have the same recording (31 August 1964, Edinburgh) on an EMI DVD (classic archive); (2) I have another recording of the pair playing these five sonatas in much better sound in 24-bit format Japanese Philips PHCP-24015/6, recorded in Vienna and London between 1961 and 1964. DL, the Oistrakh / Richter CD you bought yesterday featuring Beethoven's Violin Sonatas Nos. 1,3, & 10 is, as Doremi claims, a "first release ever", in the sense that these recordings have never appeared in CD format. But EMI has released No.3 before, both in VHS and LD. The Doremi recording, though in 20-bit format, places us, alas, in the next room where the two giants are playing. Happily, one's ears soon adjust to that and one would rejoice in the chance to eavesdrop. |
trollope 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.105 |
2005-04-24 22:00 |
| [#3276] Richter on Ankh Hi Jon, my three Richter CDs from the Canadian label Ankh are at the moment somewhere over the Pacific Ocean on their way to reach me. http://www3.sympatico.ca/ankhproductions/bobbeaudin/ I expect them to fill big gaps in my recorded Richter collection. |
trollope 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.105 |
2005-04-24 22:32 |
