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[#3243] QUAD ESL speaker Your LS3/5A needs a warm up :-) ____________________________________ Yes, Dennis. Your 3/5a need a lot of workout and shouldn't be despiced on. In fact a good 3/5a driven by a suitable amp, like the V410 yesterday, should compare favourably with the ESL in many departments. We talked out yesterday that even the best violin like the "Messiah" Strad in Oxford needs to be played as often as possible to keep its lustrous sound.		cpsjj 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.221	2007-04-05 12:12

[#3244] QUAD ESL speaker

Yes, the LS3/5A deserves not only respect, but tender loving care as well.

limage

正式會員
219.xxx.xxx.142

2007-04-05 12:21

[#3245] QUAD ESL speaker
Dear all and Feikeung,

About vintage tube, I guess the quad matched grey bottle VT75 are considered to be the best partnering power tube in my QUAD II, but it was not the end of story yet as I only used the second best grey plate Corror 52Ku rectifier.

I have acquired a pair of black base Cossor with rusty black plate in hand (in store in fact). One has medium size bottle and one has the biggest bottle type. I guess they would probably produce at least 10% enhancement in details (sorry quantifying again) to compliment the VT75 tubes we listened to yesterday. Does it sound more fun to you?

Let me first fine tune the speaker position over the holidays. See you later gentlemen.

Gingers,

We did not realize your pair British breed Leak TL/50+ only take 110V. Sorry about the set up and that was why I asked dr John to come and deliver your TL/50+ for you as you need to carry the extra gadget like portable transformer plant.

Anyway, I shall ask Edmund to do favour to arrange the step down transformer when we next gun fight.

dkyyu

正式會員
210.xxx.xxx.217

2007-04-05 14:00

[#3246] QUAD ESL speaker

Yes, the LS3/5A deserves not only respect, but tender loving care as well
_________________________________________________________________________________

limage,

Seems your tender loving care is only lip service. When are you going to hook up your LS3/5a and show us how Louis Armstrong sings?

Whilst we were on violins yesterday, I like to share this article in the hope that some fiddlers might give us some enlightening comments. Nonetheless, the article presents controversies similar to our everlasting arguments on speaker placements, vintage amps, myth of some of the legendary brand names and all other music reproduction methods:

Almost every one of them (violinists) will be bearing an old Italian violin. The fortunate ones will be playing instruments by Stradivari or Guarneri. Some will have specimens by Nicolo Amati. A few will exult in noble violins by Bergonzi, Gagliano, Guadagnini or de Salo. Those who do not have an old Italian violin will beg, borrow or steal one. Any debut violinist who steps on a New York stage without a product from Cremona will feel as exposed and naked as one of the Beatle boys with a down-to-the-scalp crew cut.

But is it an open and shut case that a Strad or Guarnerius del Gesu is so much better than a good modern instrument? Or better at all? Not too much work has been done on the physics of violins, and the work that has been done suggests that a good deal of myth surrounds Cremonese fiddles. Of course there are many imponderables, and science is not so exact when it comes to imponderables. Some decades ago Jeans wrote that a piano key made the same sound when depressed by the finger of a Paderewski or the tip of an umbrella. That started a hullabaloo, and all experienced pianists rightly laughed. Piano tone is a combination of many factors, and what Jeans should have written was that the finger of a Paderewski was able to duplicate the sound made by the tip of an umbrella.

Similarly, violin sound is a combination of many subtle factors. Obviously some violinists have greater ability than others to generate tone. It is equally obvious that a $1,000,000 Strad is a better instrument than a pawn-shop $100 special. But can the Strad be duplicated today? Can scientists make vernier measurements, duplicate every bulge and thickness, and come up with a facsimile?

Apparently yes, and apparently no. Some researches indicate that when a group of listeners, even trained ones, think they are hearing a Strad, they find the instrument perfect, even though it is a copy. Jascha Heifetz once played a concert using a modern instrument and nobody knew the difference. The Curtis String Quartet made blindfold tests, alternating with new and old instruments. Again nobody could tell the difference. Thus the late Frederick A. Saunders, professor emeritus of physics at Harvard (also a charter member of the Catgut Acoustical Society) came to the conclusion that “The possibility is that the difference in quality between excellent old violins and the best new ones is negligibly small…………Is it any longer true that no modern instrument can be as good as a Strad?”

The Catgut Acoustical Society is a group devoted to violin acoustics, and its membership consists of physicists, engineers, mathematicians and string players. They meet periodically and happily discuss plate vibration, varnish, damping factors, tap tones, air resonance, and the special properties of the slip-stick action of the bowed string.

Take varnish. It is an article of faith in most violin circles that the varnish of an old instrument is one of the critical factors in its worth. Thus E. Herron-Allen, in his article on Stradivari, wrote “in the classification of the relative importance of the various factors required to make a perfect violin, materials and dimensions are subservient to varnish, and it was in the application of this that Stradivari surpassed his contemporaries.” Herron-Allen goes on to state that the secret of the Cremonese varnish, lost today, was common property of makers of the time, “who compounded it from the materials used by the great painters of the epoch.” He laments that the quick-drying varnishes of modern times sounded the death-knell of the “brilliant, tender, transparent varnish of the Cremona school.”

But, wrote Dr. Saunders, response curves of untreated violins compared with the response curves of varnished violins show little difference. He came to the conclusion that the effect of varnish was a negligible factor. He also concluded that – contrary to the opinion of most violinists – no instrument, old or new, can generate an even tone. All instruments “peak”, that is, they are louder on certain notes than others. When this was demonstrated to a panel of violinists, they claimed that the testing meters were faulty.

The age of a violin, too (say the scientists), is an uncertain factor in its worth. But it may be that the effects of long-continued vibration seem to be definite and sometimes beneficial. Dr. Saunders cited the case of the “Messiah” Strad in Oxford Museum. This instrument, in perfect condition, is seldom played, and those who have tried it say privately that it is not as good as other Strads. One interesting speculation of Dr. Saunders concerned the purfling, the thin strips grooved and glued into the front and back plates. After years of playing, the glue finally cracks, thus creating a vibrating plate with very thin edges. Perhaps this makes the difference.

Mrs. Hutchins, who makes her own instruments, pleads for an extension of the violin family. In Renaissance times, the viol family cover the entire range of pitch represented by the piano keyboard. “On the other hand, the violin family leaves substantial gaps in coverage.” But she would be the first to admit that the Cremonese violin makers had some secrets. “We really ought to learn how to make consistently better instruments than the old masters did. If that challenge cannot be fulfilled, we should at the very least find out the reasons for our limitations.”

But, one wonders, can those reasons ever be scientifically determined? Aside from subtle psychological considerations, it is a fact that every great violinist from Paganini (who played a Guarnerius) has preferred a Cremonese instrument. Whether the secret is size, or vanish, or material, or age, or ease of playing, or quality of tone, or a combination of all of these, there does seem to be a secret – even if the scientists say that each individual factor seems to be of negligible importance.

And so, those unfortunate violinists who do not own a Cremonese instrument are still going to beg, borrow or steal. Chances are, too, that no instrument maker would turn down the secret of Stradivari’s lost vanish formula. It was inscribed on the fly leaf of the family bible, but his descendant Girolamo destroyed it, though (says Grove’s) “he kept a copy of it which he carefully preserved for any further members of the family who might adopt the profession of their illustrious ancestor”.

cpsjj

正式會員
219.xxx.xxx.221

2007-04-05 14:22

[#3247] QUAD ESL speaker
I have acquired a pair of black base Cossor with rusty black plate in hand (in store in fact). One has medium size bottle and one has the biggest bottle type. I guess they would probably produce at least 10% enhancement in details (sorry quantifying again) to compliment the VT75 tubes we listened to yesterday. Does it sound more fun to you?
-----------------------------------------------

Dennis,

Just make sure you are using Cossor 52KU instead of the similar looking but larger 53KU. 53KU may may casue permanent damage to your beloved Quad II.

And do try out Telefunken EF806S on the amp. There is magic in this combo.

timtube

正式會員
218.xxx.xxx.128

2007-04-05 15:15

[#3248] QUAD ESL speaker
Dear Tim,

Thanks for your advice again.

The big bottle I've recently acquired has 52ku mark printed on the bottle. I believe I have made no mistake because it looks the same biggest coke bottle one you brought to my place last time. It really sounds marvellous and I would love to collect a pair instead of single.

The other rusty black plate has got a brown base with a slightly smaller bottle size but bigger than ordinary Mullard GZ32. Surely I could hear more harmonic from the violin when I plugged them on today.

dkyyu

正式會員
210.xxx.xxx.217

2007-04-05 17:55

[#3249] QUAD ESL speaker
Dear Tim,

I am using Z729 with finer mesh tube on QUAD II, they sound better than any EF86 in my system. The 806s are quite expensive and do allow me more time for an affordable quad set.

dkyyu

正式會員
210.xxx.xxx.217

2007-04-05 17:59

[#3250] QUAD ESL speaker
Z729 is also a nice EF86. But the character does not quite match the Quad II imo.

TFK EF806S is not cheap. But they clearly worth the money for Quad II lover particular as they likely to last forever in that amp.

timtube

正式會員
219.xxx.xxx.131

2007-04-05 20:29

[#3251] QUAD ESL speaker
Dear Tim,

Strong competition arising from CP and Gingers. It's time to change some tubes for the QUAD II to stay in the league.

dkyyu

正式會員
210.xxx.xxx.217

2007-04-05 21:31

[#3252] QUAD ESL speaker
Buy it now US$200

http://cgi.ebay.de/2-NEW-Telefunken-Tubes-EF806s-6267-EF86_W0QQitemZ130090265755QQcategoryZ64449QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

j_l

正式會員
222.xxx.xxx.140

2007-04-05 21:44

[#3253] QUAD ESL speaker
http://cgi.ebay.de/3x-TELEFUNKEN-EF806S-6267-EF86-NOS-NEW-TESTED-forV72_W0QQitemZ130096772661QQcategoryZ67816QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem

j_l

正式會員
222.xxx.xxx.140

2007-04-05 21:44

[#3254] QUAD ESL speaker
Dear Patrick,
Nice to meet you guys here, I am now living in HK, Sai Kung. The 6C33 OTL was home made by my colleague. It was base on circlotron design like Atma-Sphere. There are 10 tubes in each channel, the 6 6C33 are driven by 4 6SN7. I and my colleague want to get pure tube sound without colored by output transformer, so we go to the direction of OTL. My friend was using Thiel, the OTL performs less satisfactory because the speaker was of 4 ohms low impedance. I guess it does not fit for Maggie either. I tried the OTL (4 6C33 version) in my friend's ESL 63 PRO in Toronto, it gives out the deep and punchy bass that I never think of. I had listened to ESL paired with 80W KT88 power amp, the bass was light and have early roll-off. Even in Hi-Fi show, the Quad ESL never has a chance to show it is capable to produce deep bass.
AS for ESL57, I don't know whether the magic will play on ESL57 or not?

正式會員
210.xxx.xxx.167

2007-04-07 02:19

[#3255] QUAD ESL speaker
Dear LW,
Is your OTL 110V or 230V? Our ESL master Patrick is out of town till Monday. Is it possible for you to call me 9450 4803 or send a note to my PM dkyyu@yahoo.com.hk as we all wish to try OTL with my ESL57

Regards
Dennis

dkyyu

正式會員
210.xxx.xxx.217

2007-04-07 13:08

[#3256] QUAD ESL speaker
Quad ESL speaker is it have market in HK??
how much for sale???

hkkaho

正式會員
203.xxx.xxx.204

2007-04-07 16:08

[#3257] QUAD ESL speaker
The latest ESL model are 2905 and 2805, based on ESL63 with modified structural frame I was told. The top model should not cost you over HK$80K. In my opinion, the ESL speakers are one of the best sounding speakers on market regardless of price. However, the oldies ESL57 we are using still sound more real than the current model to my ears.

dkyyu

正式會員
210.xxx.xxx.217

2007-04-07 21:05

[#3258] QUAD ESL speaker
Hello LW,
I live in Tseung Kwan O which is quite close to Sai Kung. We are very interested to find out the sound quality and performance of OTL when use with ESL. I think we are in the same channel as Dennis and I are going after pure un-colored sound. Do you still have the circuit diagramme of your OTL. Will it be possible to let us take a look at it?

We have tested the ESL63 I rebuilt for Feikeung using my Quicksilver KT88 mono block (60Watts per channel) and the tonal quality, for my taste was acceptable. It has crystal clear highs and very deep bass. The mids was not as good as the ESL57 but far better than most of other speakers. I am very happy with the result and wanted to rebuild the damaged ESL63 I bought from Kowloon. I will use exactly the same specs in Feikeung's ESL63 to rebuild Allan (our other ESL friend) and mine. You are welcome to join us in our test audition session when completed.

hkkaho,
Dennis is right that the ESL is one of the best sounding speakers in this world. But in my bumble opinion, the ESL57 is the best of the best when it comes to vocalist or small scale strings or if you are very serious about extremely accurate soundstage. However, If like rock & roll and 爆棚 music with punchy bass. you will find it very disappointed.

Regds

Pcs100

正式會員
219.xxx.xxx.212

2007-04-09 11:35

[#3259] QUAD ESL speaker
From QUAD HiFi audio group :

Seeing the post from David Fagan concerning the MAF stands for the 57
ESL, reminded me that I had never shared my stand building experience
with the group. I have posted some pictures in the Photos section:
57 ESL Stands MRC.

I designed the stands based very loosely on the concept
developed,IIRC, by Sheldon Stokes, to raise the speakers about 14"
from the floor and to position them vertically. I used carbon steel
instead of wood. The uprights are pieces of 4" x 4" x 1/4"
structural tubing that bolts to the 2-piece base (1/2" x 6" flat bar,
milled to 1/4" thick where they cross to make the Tee). Everything
is screwed together using counter sunk Allen screws. The top of the
upright has a plate welded to support the speaker at the required
angle. The speaker is attached to the stand using two 5/16" dia hex
head lag screws. I had the pieces powder coated semi-gloss black and
was well pleased with the result. I machined and screwed in 3
adjustable carpet spikes per base but adjustable rubber feet could be
substituted for hardwood or tiled floors.

The bass performance is definitely improved and I think - and also
more importantly SWMBO concurs - that the speakers now look much more
modern and less like convection heaters.

Mike
Quad IIs, 33, monobloced 303s, FM3, 57s, Ah! tube conv. CD player,
Kef 107s, 105/3s & 104/2s, Garrard 401/SME3012/Shure V15.