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| [#12867] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user Hi all 12.1 users, There was a game I proposed last night. The clone 12.1 paired up with a real 12.1 and we tried to identify which channel of sound came from the clone. Brothers, I have to remind you not to play this game though at least you can have 50% to win. If you lose the game, I think Richard's clone 12.1 will be your choice. Trade in and you can have your 12.1 investment back :-) mdlover did not play the game. DJ, a single 12.1 owner, passed the test. And I.................................. chose not to play this dangerous game :-) A smart decision, I think. %20036.jpg?dc=4675594892554172245) |
Gingers 正式會員218.xxx.xxx.4 |
2006-10-26 09:16 | |
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| [#12868] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user 400CX-2 Vs 27M My conclusion is the result of the pre amplifier test several months ago still STANDS. ------------------------------------------------ Is the power amp used in the comparison of the same ultra-high sensitivity as the TL25A used last time? If yes, there is no reason for the result to differ. The more interesting comparison is to use normal sensitivity power amp. And Richard, are you designing for the same sensitivity for the clone 12.1 as the original? |
timtube 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.140 |
2006-10-26 11:26 |
| [#12869] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user The clone 12.1 paired up with a real 12.1 and we tried to identify which channel of sound came from the clone. ----------------------------------------------- You cannot and no one can, unless you only play mono signal and one channel at one time. The human are designed to "mix" the sounds we hear from the left ear and the right ear. You can use a tube amp for the left channel and a SS amp on the right channel and you probably cannot tell which is which if both channels are playing. |
timtube 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.140 |
2006-10-26 11:30 |
| [#12870] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user richard, what is the ballpark $$ for a pair of the clone 12.1? a :-) |
aliu 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.99 |
2006-10-26 11:40 |
| [#12871] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user Tim We also used mono CD as well as the balance knob of my 400CX-2 to AB test. Yes, the adapters of 12.1 are with resistors. I had to turn the volumn knob to 11 O'clock for the test. You should visit Richard's workshop. It will be interesting to have your 400CX-2 again. BTW,I still think Michael's 400CX-2 the best as auditioned at Colin's house. Please tell Alan. I guess he had forgotton / dared not to take part in the Fisher 50C Vs 400CX-2. He promised several weeks ago :-) Kidding ^++++^ John |
Gingers 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.4 |
2006-10-26 11:45 |
| [#12872] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user Gingers, I see. So you are playing only one channel at one time. And it is great news that the 27M gave great performance even when attenuating resistors were used in the party. |
timtube 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.140 |
2006-10-26 11:55 |
| [#12873] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user Richard, I think it is a wonderful idea to make TL12.1 clone. But what resistors and caps are you using for this? I found that you can never get close to the original vintage sound unless vintage parts are used. |
timtube 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.140 |
2006-10-26 12:11 |
| [#12874] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user I think it is a wonderful idea to make TL12.1 clone. ----------------------------------------- 12.1 is common. I think 12.1 owner will not HEART MOVE. If Richard asked me. I would tell him WHY not a 25A clone? Then even a 12.1 owners at least will a bit HEART MOVE :-) |
Gingers 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.4 |
2006-10-26 14:05 |
| [#12875] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user For EL34 amplifier, I would suggest to clone the Audiomaster 11A :-)  |
Gingers 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.4 |
2006-10-26 14:08 |
| [#12876] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user I am not saying Audiomaster 11A is the best el34 amplifier. However, it looks really nice to my eyes :-) |
Gingers 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.4 |
2006-10-26 14:09 |
| [#12877] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user For EL34 amplifier, I would suggest to clone the Audiomaster 11A :-) ------------------------------------------------- We actually tried that before and found out that we cannot get to the same sound unless the same resistors, the same cap and the same transformers are used! |
timtube 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.140 |
2006-10-26 14:24 |
| [#12878] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user the same resistors, the same cap and the same transformers are used! ----------------------------------------- I would treat this not a clone :-) |
Gingers 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.4 |
2006-10-26 16:59 |
| [#12879] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user straightly speaking, a clone is an exact replica of the original. so richard's amp cannot be called a 'clone' at best a 'copy'. :-) |
drwkng 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.111 |
2006-10-26 18:12 |
| [#12880] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user a 'clone' at best a 'copy' -------------------------------- "it doesn't matter whether a cat is black or white, a cat that catches mice is a good cat" |
Gingers 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.99 |
2006-10-26 19:13 |
| [#12881] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user I am very interested since I yet have to own a pair of the legendary 12.1. However, can I ask what the purpose of cloning the 12.1 is. Will it be sold commercially as a 12.1 copy like the different versions of M9 in the market, or there are certain circuit modifications found to improve on the original 12.1? |
cpsjj 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.159 |
2006-10-26 20:02 |
| [#12882] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user I think it is a wonderful idea to make TL12.1 clone. But what resistors and caps are you using for this? I found that you can never get close to the original vintage sound unless vintage parts are used. --------------------------- Tim, I don't think good sound necessarily comes from vintage resistors, vintage capacitors, vintage output and power transformers. I do recognize vintage amps (which contains vintage components) do sound great. In fact, MOST of our LEAK TL/12.1S do not have ALL original resistors and capacitors by now but they do sing great. The important things are only the suitable sorts/designs of resistors, capacitors and transformers are used. I am lucky that I have sourced the design (double-bobbin!) and accessed to the techniques used in original LEAK TL/12.1 output transformers . Tonight, I went on powering up the BLACK 12.1 (I won't say "clone", although any official patents must have lapsed after 40 years). The BLACK 12.1 sounds great mating a LEAK TL/12.1. Perhaps the BLACK 12.1 may work like one "LS3/5A" that officially mates well with any other LS3/5A to play 2-channel stereo sound. My aim is to build the other BLACK 12.1 and really listen to them alone. Then, I would invite you to come to listen if you have time. :) |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2006-10-26 21:11 |
| [#12883] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user "there are certain circuit modifications found to improve on the original 12.1?" Some modern design may not be worse than but this is beyond my ability or aim, except the proven need to lower the input sensitivity. |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2006-10-26 21:15 |
| [#12884] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user Gingers is an interesting friend fo us. He is faithful to both his ears and friends. :) |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2006-10-26 21:17 |
| [#12885] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user 12.1 is common. I think 12.1 owner will not HEART MOVE. If Richard asked me. I would tell him WHY not a 25A clone? Then even a 12.1 owners at least will a bit HEART MOVE :-) ---------------------------------------- The "secrete" of very immediate and dynamic sound of LEAK TL/12.1 is perhaps its very symmetrically winded output transformers (double-bobbin!). LEAK TL/25A sounds great also thanks to its double-bobbin output transformers. Instead of TL/25A, I am thinking a "BLACK" 30A built on double-bobbin output transformers and super output tubes, e.g. EL156 (instead of KT66). |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2006-10-26 21:21 |
| [#12886] Leak Club for Leakies or Leak user He is faithful to both his ears and friends. :) ----------------------------------------- Who is not faith to his ears? friends.............. That's why we are here :-) |
Gingers 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.99 |
2006-10-26 21:42 |
