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| [#1623] Quad ESL speaker Most tube amps should be pretty well protected by the output transformer. ------------------------------------ CP, I believe ESL63 is exception. The output transformer protects passive loudspeakers. But ESL 63 is active. Many tube amplifiers connect the output feedback to the input stage for negative feedback. Therefore, amplifies circuit are in direct connection with ESL 63. I investigated the scene right after the blaze. The tube of front stage caught fire, where the negative feedback was feed into there. I wish my information could help you to diagnose the ESL 63 in your office. |
Blue-Ray 會員218.xxx.xxx.17 |
2006-10-17 12:02 |
 名望音響 - LUXMAN Showroom |
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| [#1624] Quad ESL speaker my information could help you to diagnose the ESL 63 _______________________________________________________________ Edmund......................thanks a lot for the information. However, there is something I don't follow. The signal input of the 63 is fed directly to the audio transformer which is then connected to the coil board and capacitor board, in turn to the respective diaphragm. All passive components. I doubt whether the speaker can be regarded as active, by definition. The only thing active which is connected somehow to the input is the protection circuit. The 555 timer is triggered by ionization (or close to ionization) and fires triac T1 which then short circuit the input. This means that the power amp shall have some sort of short circuit protection which I believe there is. There is nothing that can go thru the input point. All the "active" parts are on the stators. If that is suspected to be the culprit, I'll take a look at the various triacs first. |
cpsjj 會員 220.xxx.xxx.91 |
2006-10-17 15:03 |
| [#1625] Quad ESL speaker Dear friends, After listening to my fully rehabilitated OTA ESL for few days amounting to around 10 listening hours, I confirm everything is now in proper place. The OTA sounds really alike to my original ESL sold to mda a month ago. (I'll tell you why I sold my best sounding and original ESL without making a profit later.) If not side by side, I couldn't tell much difference between two ESL despite a longer run-in period of the original ESL's treble panel. So hey guys, don't worry about non-conformity to original. If you had an old pair under searching, get it, rebuild it by OTA or whoever you trust. I'd once thought the OTA has louder bass and now i understand I was fooled by the treble-less faulty treble panel. Shame on my poor ears. The female voice of the OTA is still a bit tight but meeting almost 90% of my expectation. It's almost there but I guess I probably need to run in the new treble panels, new catridges and tonearm leads some more hours for escalation to their peak performance. My last attempt on orienting the speakers to different side walls and rear wall depth failed and now I settled on the original position after trying some other positions. It sounds a bit naughty like Limage or Feikeung. Ah, the two of their 18式 remind me it's time to try out these two panel speaker masters' placement advices now. 1) In proximity to side walls to coupling the panels to the entire surreoundings, toe-in a bit when necessary. 2) treat the ESL as standalone speaker. Away from boundary. Feikeung, toe-in or not? I think I can learn and settle on something really good from these two big advices through try-out. Once the placement is fixed, I'll affix the OTA spikes to the OTA stands to conclude my stage one of ESL. Perhaps Feikeung and Limage, you may need to come to judge the results when available. So any other suggestions from any experts? Limage and Feikeung, I am not pushing you two into conflict. My feeling is that the ESL, by it's semi-dipole nature, will require different treatment in different room. The standalone ESL sounds pretty well and comfortable in cp's huge and rather square workshop layout. But cp's positioning (sorry, I hope it won't turn you on again because it sounds a bit naughty again) may not suit well in my case with a long and narrow walls. Well, I plan to close this long story in coming two weeks as I need to plan a new road map for stage two, a double QUAD or adding sub-woofer in 2007 or 2008. |
dkyyu 會員 218.xxx.xxx.82 |
2006-10-18 02:38 |
| [#1626] Quad ESL speaker Oh, cool! Another party coming up? |
j_l 會員 222.xxx.xxx.58 |
2006-10-18 09:28 |
| [#1627] Quad ESL speaker (sorry, I hope it won't turn you on again because it sounds a bit naughty again) ____________________________________________________________________________________ Seems like I appear to be pretty quick tempered. Mm...................need some evaluation. But I'm turned on every time I turn on my music system. I'll be more than happy to moderate feikeung and limage views. |
cpsjj 會員 203.xxx.xxx.88 |
2006-10-18 10:10 |
| [#1628] Missionary vs Lotus Position......... Dennis, ＞But cp's positioning (sorry, I hope it won't turn you on again because it sounds a bit naughty again) may not suit well in my case with a long and narrow walls. You are bloody right. Space was never a problem when the ESL-57s, which were primarily intended as stand-alone transducers, were in my procession. In Hong Kong, however, where space = BIG $$$, it’s a different scenario. I suspect there are basically two solutions: a) Use the ESL-57s as ear speakers --- near field, the speakers and the listener forming a isosceles triangle. Damping material is required on the side walls and perhaps (not always necessary) on the wall behind the speakers. You may want to move the ESL-57s along the length of your living room until the lower octaves are optimized, then you can begin fine-turning by adjusting the distance from the side wall as well as the toe-in angle. Basically you just want the near field response and need to attenuate or minimize reflections. A lot of QUADphiles, yours truly included, found this quite satisfactory. This is often referred to as the classic position for the ESL-57, or The Missionary Position because it’s easy to achieve and good, perhaps not best, results are always guaranteed. b) Use the side walls to help radiate and project sound emanating from the speakers, the focal point being the listener’s chair. This is rather tricky with the ESL-57. You’ll have to consult high hand like Limage. It’s analogous to The Lotus Position because of the degree of difficulty…… |
feikeung 會員 219.xxx.xxx.73 |
2006-10-18 11:18 |
| [#1629] Missionary vs Lotus Position......... It’s analogous to The Lotus Position because of the degree of difficulty…… ______________________________________________________________________________ The Lotus position is not a problem for limage.  |
cpsjj 會員 203.xxx.xxx.88 |
2006-10-18 12:52 |
| [#1630] Missionary vs Lotus Position......... Space was never a problem when the ESL-57s, which were primarily intended as stand-alone transducers, were in my procession. _________________________________________________________________________ I agree that it is easiest to place the ESL57 as standalone. However, every listening environment calls for an appropriate ratio of reflected sound to direct sound and in my case, despite it is now quite comfortable to the ears, I still find the sound bit lean, not tonally but the overall ambience; quite evident that the ratio is not correct. I am still of the opinion that Dennis' place provides a better ratio. My suggestion is to sacrifice a bit width and leave the speakers about 2 to 3 feet from side wall. That leaves the inner edge of the speakers about 3 feet apart. Toe in slightly towards the listener and sit about 6-7 feet from the speakers. The speakers should be at least 4 feet from the front wall. |
cpsjj 會員 203.xxx.xxx.88 |
2006-10-18 13:06 |
| [#1631] Missionary vs Lotus Position......... CP, If I placed my ESL 2 ffet from side wall, I am afraid the inner sides of two ESL will be only one feet apart, not two feet apart (2+3) feet x 2 ESL = 10 feet. How about to try out this third suggestion by leaving the ESL one feet away from side instead of 2 feet. This will leave 3 feet apart between both ESL's inner sides. Feikeung, Thanks for your clarification on details. Let me think over again. |
dkyyu 會員 218.xxx.xxx.13 |
2006-10-18 17:41 |
| [#1632] 幸褔 The day before yesterday I took sobilly and pin to cpsjj's warehouse. The Quad ESL57 was performing even better than 2 previous visits. Listening to vocals and chamber music was really wonderful, 真有一種幸褔的感覺! |
doctorjohn 會員 219.xxx.xxx.231 |
2006-10-20 11:10 |
| [#1633] 幸褔 真有一種幸褔的感覺! ______________________ DJ, I'm flattered. This is the first time I note such a description. Do you mean you are now courting it? married to it? or it was actually so bad that you decide to get a better half who would help you (or force) to get rid of all these junks? |
cpsjj 會員 203.xxx.xxx.64 |
2006-10-20 13:25 |
| [#1634] 幸褔 cp, When would you like to pick up the ESL-63s from my brother's in Shatin? Or should I have my courier bring them over? |
feikeung 會員 219.xxx.xxx.73 |
2006-10-20 13:47 |
| [#1635] Quad ESL speaker feikeung, It will be great if your courier will be available. Otherwise I can come on Tuesday morning and I would need Patrick to help loading and unloading. |
cpsjj 會員 203.xxx.xxx.64 |
2006-10-20 16:10 |
| [#1636] Quad ESL speaker cp, Tuesday morning is fine with me. Also Patrick wants to borrow the Graaf GM 20 to play with. |
feikeung 會員 219.xxx.xxx.73 |
2006-10-20 16:21 |
| [#1637] Quad ESL speaker Feikeung and CP......This coming Tuesday is fine. Feikeung, will you be coming with us to CP's workshop for a brief listening of the Maggie and the Graaf? Regds Patrick |
Pcs100 會員 219.xxx.xxx.151 |
2006-10-20 17:31 |
| [#1638] Quad ESL speaker feikeung I think my car can take the Quad and Graaf alright. How large is the Maggie? |
cpsjj 會員 203.xxx.xxx.64 |
2006-10-20 17:44 |
| [#1639] Quad ESL speaker The Quad ESL57 was performing even better than 2 previous visits. Listening to vocals and chamber music was really wonderful, 真有一種幸褔的感覺. ------------------------------------- You'd better watch out, DJ. That happened to me 10 years ago. I didn't like it the 1st time I listen to it. However, the more I listen, the more I love it. and finally ended up can't live without it. Extremely addictive! |
Pcs100 會員 219.xxx.xxx.151 |
2006-10-20 17:56 |
| [#1640] Quad ESL speaker I want to share the 幸褔的感覺 from Graaf OTL amps and ESL-63...! Those are fresh 幸褔的感覺 to me. :) |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2006-10-20 20:55 |
| [#1641] Quad ESL speaker I want to share the 幸褔的感覺 from Graaf OTL amps and ESL-63 ----------------------------------------- Richard......Feikeung's ESL63 is not yet in servicable condition. One channel in his Graaf had some distortion last time we played in Dennis' place. We'll see what is the situation first. Will keep you folks posted. |
Pcs100 會員 219.xxx.xxx.151 |
2006-10-20 21:30 |
| [#1642] Quad ESL speaker Patrick, Thanks for the advice. :) |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2006-10-20 21:37 |
| [#1643] Quad ESL speaker I had always wanted a pair for a "second" system, and I am encouraged that in HK one can find 幸褔! One day when I have a tidier place I'll try to find 幸褔 ! But I'll have to have a pair of 狂野放蕩 BIG horns at least for the main system to play my Bruckner and Mahler and Shostakovich! 狂野放蕩後找點幸褔的感覺, 貪心吧? |
doctorjohn 會員 219.xxx.xxx.137 |
2006-10-21 10:37 |
| [#1644] Quad ESL speaker rcwy: "...fresh 幸褔的感覺 to me..." No, not everything can give 幸褔的感覺! Not that easily at least! Could it be that rcwy is 狂野放蕩 at heart??? |
doctorjohn 會員 219.xxx.xxx.137 |
2006-10-21 10:40 |
| [#1645] Quad ESL speaker Gentlemen, excuse me for interrupting but I thought 狂野放蕩 = 幸褔 |
kris 會員 203.xxx.xxx.47 |
2006-10-21 10:57 |
| [#1646] Quad ESL speaker Could it be that rcwy is 狂野放蕩 at heart??? ________________________________________________ Could very well be from the way he helps DJ stitching up the dalliance. But isn't the 狂野放蕩 already exhibited in the good sounding Tannoy? |
cpsjj 會員 218.xxx.xxx.85 |
2006-10-21 10:59 |
| [#1647] Quad ESL speaker 狂野放蕩 = 幸褔 __________________ Depends on your gender. |
cpsjj 會員 218.xxx.xxx.85 |
2006-10-21 11:01 |
| [#1648] Quad ESL speaker 狂野放蕩後找點幸褔的感覺 __________________________ Sounds like to me having a cigarette after the fight and not getting dressed and rush home! |
cpsjj 會員 218.xxx.xxx.85 |
2006-10-21 11:06 |
| [#1649] Quad ESL speaker 狂野放蕩 = 幸褔!! Ah, Kris may be right. Now maybe even 幸褔 has to be qualified. OK, try again: 狂野放蕩也可是一種幸褔 溫心的感覺卻可能是更真點的一種幸褔 幸褔來得不易 但 "keep fresh" 更難 剛找到卻想要更 "fresh" 一點的... 在眾多助語詞中, 幸褔消失了. |
doctorjohn 會員 219.xxx.xxx.137 |
2006-10-21 11:17 |
| [#1650] Quad ESL speaker 在眾多助語詞中, 幸褔消失了 ______________________________ DJ, That's beyond words. A feeling that only music can describe. |
cpsjj 會員 218.xxx.xxx.85 |
2006-10-21 11:21 |
| [#1651] Quad ESL speaker cp/patrick, I may or may not be able to attend your workshop session next Tuesday. But my spirit will be with you. |
feikeung 會員 211.xxx.xxx.132 |
2006-10-21 13:02 |
| [#1652] Quad ESL speaker I may or may not be able to attend your workshop session next Tuesday ---------------------------------- Feikeung......We'll call you for direction to yr shatin house Tuesday morning. How big is yr Maggie? CP will be driving his Utility Sport Vehicle. Will it be enough room for all that? Regds Patrick |
Pcs100 會員 219.xxx.xxx.151 |
2006-10-21 13:42 |
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