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| [#1] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? Why? |
0ralb 正式會員203.xxx.xxx.193 |
2011-06-30 11:40 | |
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| [#2] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? 何以見得？ |
孟波 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.240 |
2011-06-30 21:46 |
| [#3] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? Because some of my old LP is inverted-phased recorded! |
0ralb 正式會員 121.xxx.xxx.102 |
2011-07-01 12:49 |
| [#4] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? Yes, reasons unknown or just "human errors"(I know some studio guys who always mix up days and nights, Kakaka!) 1) some of them were "phase inverted". 2) some of them were mixed up with "left & right" channels! 0ralb Hing, You really have "good ears" and "good system" ^_^ Suggested solution for 1) Use "phase inversion" button in phono stage to correct. Suggested solution for 2) Unplug & swap left and right channels of your IC. Only my 2 cents, of course. Remember one more thing: Some carts, such as some pretty OLD Koetsu, were "phase inverted" internally & intentionally. 最後修改時間: 2011-07-01 13:11:00 |
黃思璁 正式會員 112.xxx.xxx.35 |
2011-07-01 12:53 |
| [#5] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? 點反法?? 點check?? |
cornercube 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.8 |
2011-07-01 13:08 |
| [#6] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? these are just suggestions to solve the problems. hardly explain why the records were recorded and produced that way. |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2011-07-01 13:14 |
| [#7] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? 其實錄音師想點錄及效果如何，只有他本人才知曉，聽眾們又有何證據話佢反相呢？單靠發燒友在家中器材聽到正反有別就於錄音相位不對？小弟愚見只要電相正確，接線相位正確，軟件數據的相位真的不用費神去處理，專心欣賞錄音師帶比你的美妙音樂好過。 不喜勿插^__^ |
anthlai 正式會員 124.xxx.xxx.35 |
2011-07-01 13:49 |
| [#8] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? """Suggested solution for 1) Use "phase inversion" button in phono stage to correct.""" there are some high end pre amps with a switch to do that. not necessarily a phono stage. """Suggested solution for 2) Unplug & swap left and right channels of your IC.""" that just swap left and right channel output. nothing to do with inverting phase. u need to swap the speaker cables + to - and - to + on both sides |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2011-07-01 13:57 |
| [#9] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? phase inverted (speaker cable + & - reverse) vs polarity (being power + and - reversed), phase inverted day and night difference but not polarity.... can any Ching elabrate & share more experiences? |
ll77hk 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.93 |
2011-07-01 14:02 |
| [#10] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? ＞＞u need to swap the speaker cables + to - and - to + on both sides＜＜ 對不起，在黃某所用過的器材實試，只有聽感分別，這不能解決樓主此問題。 其實由於錄製時誤駁+/-而引致的phase inversion, 可掉唱頭線來解決，但十分不方便及有一定危險, 如弄斷唱頭線、唱針等。 所以， suggested solution是在phono stage轉。 不過 有些器材及錄音似乎是刻意「反相」的，來營造某些效果。以個人愚見，只要是聽感自然，有時無須太執著，知了便算吧。 最後修改時間: 2011-07-01 15:03:12 |
黃思璁 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.18 |
2011-07-01 14:43 |
| [#11] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? 又重溫： 講番錄音正反相問題，真正原因我不敢說知道，但我會從多角度去考慮這個問題。 1)(D老細唔太認同正反相的分別,所以無落實去搞好佢) 某程度同意，不過做得錄音師應該比普通發燒友有更高常識和要求，如果錄音師都覺得個sample反了相的話，要大量生產時作矯正其實不費分毫，就算做左連老細都唔會知道，為何佢唔做呢？ 2)我絕對同意大部份錄音在正相和反相開聲，兩者一定聽得出分別，而且每個人都會選擇出一個自己或大部份朋友覺得好(或正常)的相位，不過就好難証明自己喜歡那個版本就是正相。 3)如果錄音師都不著重相位便生產唱片的話，那麼從隨機因素應該有約1/2左右的錄音是正或反相。但有說法認為某唱片公司的錄音全是反相，或19xx年後的錄音全是反相等等例子，好像不合邏輯。 4)多軌式錄音，每條聲軌都可能經過不同器材(次數)的處理，當中一定會有某些變了相位，最後mixdown成兩聲軌後，又應該以那一條聲軌作準？ |
孟波 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.240 |
2011-07-01 16:26 |
| [#12] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? More... 還有反相是怎樣造成的呢？其中當然包括你之前說的XLR插頭2和3腳制式的混亂，和某些電路是反相等等原因。 但其實就算採用100%正相的器材(mic，RECORDER，amp，speaker)以最少和起碼的器材錄音，當重播時已經有一次反相情況出現，試想像以下錄音情況： 就當最簡單以一軌錄音來錄一聲鼓聲，當聲音從鼓發出來時，假設它第一個波是壓縮波(聲音由壓縮波和舒張波組成)到達mic時，mic的震膜感受空氣壓力而向內縮，切割磁力線產生電流波形紀錄在錄音器材內。就當這個第一動作是向內縮的(-)訊號吧，當由正相的amp放大這個電流輸入正相的喇叭重播這鼓聲，它的震膜第一個動作就是向內縮(-)，這和真的鼓聲波形剛好反了相。 |
孟波 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.240 |
2011-07-01 16:34 |
| [#13] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? Well explain 孟波 Hing. |
Odie99 正式會員 99.xxx.xxx.66 |
2011-07-01 21:00 |
| [#14] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? 很多音響的問題隔一段時間便在討論區再出現一次, 這個「反相錄音」也在不同的討論區不只出現過一次, 以下是我在三年前的一個討論區寫過關於這個話題的一些分享: " The result of ‘反相’ in the media (LP, CD, DVD etc) may not be caused by the反相 in the recording session. The production of the media goes through many processes (mixing, mastering etc) from the recording session to the final product. A mistake in one process can cause 反相. I think most of producers and recording engineers do not intense to make a 反相錄音. For some recordings I like, I have different versions/releases/media of the same recordings. Sometimes, I can find different phrase in different media for the same recording. For example: 1. The phrase in the original release is correct but the out of phrase issue may happen in the later release. 2. The phrase in a UK pressing LP is correct but it is out of phrase in the US pressing LP. 3. The phrase in the vinyl is correct but it is out of phrase in the CD. 4. The phrase, even in the same release (but the record was pressed in different manufactory plant), can be different! (I have two records of the album Moving (PP&M), one of my favourite albums. Both of them are US Gold Label pressing and I think they were pressed in the same period. One has correct phrase but another is out of phrase). 5. And there are other different combinations. The phrase of the media we owned may not be the same phrase as the master tape! How do we know it is反相錄音? We may just have the反相 media. And I believe a serious production does not produce a 反相 master tape (though there may have phrase shift but it is not 反相). ... 嚴格來講, 將 connection cable 正負極反轉, 是 "reverse the POLARIY”, 不是"reverse the phase", 相位 (Phase) 這個術語常常被誤用. 實際上, 上面所用的正相及反相並不是指 phase 的正反, 而是指 polarity. " 最後修改時間: 2011-07-01 23:52:04 |
patrickwong 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.134 |
2011-07-01 23:44 |
| [#15] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? we are talking about phase not phrase. |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2011-07-01 23:53 |
| [#16] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? I think most of people know that it is typing mistake. (and the auto feature of the word processor 'helps' to 'repeat' the mistake.) 最後修改時間: 2011-07-01 23:59:44 |
patrickwong 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.134 |
2011-07-01 23:56 |
| [#17] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? 如果用膽line amp，好多都係一級屏極輸出放大(反相)再輸入下一級陰極輸出電路(陰極追隨/buffer)(正相)，那正相line signal經這前級後便變成反相輸出，這情況下如果後級和喇叭都係正相的話，那整個系統便是反相的，用這系統來聽正相碟是是反相，聽反相時是正相。 又如果前後級都係正相既，但匹配了對舊款JBL喇叭(反相)，情況一樣。 如果聽每隻碟都要跟指示校相位聽的話，首先要肯定自己套hifi係正相既。 最後修改時間: 2011-07-02 00:30:24 |
孟波 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.240 |
2011-07-02 00:26 |
| [#18] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? Agree with anthlai. 係羅！雖要時咪喺個前級或phono stage到轉下正、轉下反囉！ 得d訊號一時順行，一時逆行，順順逆逆，逆逆順順，咁套機先永遠好聲亞!!! |
7308 正式會員 116.xxx.xxx.49 |
2011-07-02 00:35 |
| [#19] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? In my high school physics on wave theory, a complete wave cycle has a phase of 360 degree. I think the common term "正相" means 0 degree out of phase (in phase or no phase difference) while "反相" means 180 degree out of phase (or half cycle phase shift) Reversing the polarity actually results in the phase of a wave being shifted by 180 degree. Strictly speaking, "reverse the phase" is not correct. Shifting the phase by 180 degree is more correct. |
Rilakkuma 正式會員 118.xxx.xxx.69 |
2011-07-02 00:38 |
| [#20] 為何反相錄音.............especially old LP? Phase associates with frequency. As the sound wave of music is combined with different frequency, technically we cannot refer the phase of the music sound. |
patrickwong 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.134 |
2011-07-02 00:59 |
