兩聲道
CD機 | MD機 | SACD機 | DAC | CAS | 合拼擴音機 | 前級擴音機 | 後級擴音機 | 接線 | 喇叭線 | 揚聲器 | 耳機 | 耳機擴音機 | LP產品 | 膽機產品 | 開卷式錄音機 | 音響配件 | DIY音響 | 電源 | 家庭影院
電視機 | 投影機 | 錄影機 | DVD影碟機 | Blu-ray影碟機 | 多媒體播放器 | 機頂盒 | 多聲道擴音機 | 多聲道揚聲器 | 多聲道影音組合 | Mini音響組合 | 重低音揚聲器 | 輔助設備 | 同好會
同好會 | Accuphase | B&W | Burmester | Denon | Jadis | KEF | KRELL | Luxman | Marantz | Nuforce | OPPO | Pioneer | TEAC | WEISS | News
News | Blog | 其他
其他 | 所有 |
| 影音天地主旨 ﹝請按主旨作出回應﹞ 下頁 尾頁 | 寄件者 | 傳送日期
|
| [#1] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 各位師兄，本人係發燒之友。家中的各種器材有 Moon 石機 (50W/ch)，DIY 膽機有805都係 50W/ch, KT150 20W/ch, 喇叭係 Verity Audio Finn Model, 有隔离牛和電源處理器，等等，都係一般發燒友的器材.現時聽單一樂器或者两三個樂器合演奏的音樂都非常滿意，例如有些感覺有糖衣，有些感覺有天赖之音。。。但唯一問题就係一播大棚野(例如有5個以上合奏)的交嚮樂就會感覺到只有一堆亂野, 分吾到大棚野的樂器的位置/和層次。。。，而且會感覺有層漠，一個字"亂"(黑澤明的電影)...吾知各位師兄對此問题有冇指教和經驗去改善。。。。吾該哂！ 最後修改時間: 2015-10-27 00:22:46 |
jamesckm 正式會員210.xxx.xxx.147 |
2015-10-27 00:15 | |
|
|
|||
| [#2] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 小弟唔係咩大發燒，純粹大家討論下。 老實講幾十瓦後級聽大爆棚，如果唔係超高效率喇叭，應該爆唔起。感覺亂的另一個可能，係系統中有器材控制力唔夠。 唔知你用咩前級和音源，可以的話借部大力後級返來試下先。 |
koalaau 會員 202.xxx.xxx.212 |
2015-10-27 01:04 |
| [#3] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 amesckm 兄，說出了一個好問題， 有時候，有些人跟我說， 果D高級音響沒有很好聽，果中古CD機很有音樂感，D中價膽機也很好聽。。。。。。。 其實當播放大棚的交嚮樂時，你就會很明白，果D高價器材價值所在， 就不要說播放大棚的交嚮樂，就是有5個以上合奏)的交嚮樂就會感覺到只有一堆亂野, 分吾到大棚野的樂器的位置/和層次。。。，而且會感覺有層漠，一個字"亂"(黑澤明的電影)..，，，，， 這是真的。 但是沒有能力負擔高級天價音響的話，，，，，，，，， 就不可以嗎？ 可以的，，，，，， 請想一想，如沒有絕好的訊源，就不會有絕好的音樂分格能力， 現在市場上有些土炮10M銣鐘CDT，DAC，，，，她們的確不錯，平靚正，聽大棚音樂也很好。 |
yt 正式會員 61.xxx.xxx.127 |
2015-10-27 01:38 |
| [#4] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 震動， 聽大棚的交嚮樂，聲音大震動強烈，，，，，， 試想想，在強烈震動之下的器材又點會有好表現呢。。。。。。。 器材避震是重要一環。 點避。。。。。。。。。問家計會吧 |
yt 正式會員 61.xxx.xxx.127 |
2015-10-27 01:47 |
| [#5] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 幾十瓦後級聽大爆棚？？？？？不會好嗎。 其實也不會太差，不是大瓦數AMP就一定會爆得好的，瓦數跟空間要成比例的， 比例是什麼，很簡單，大空間大瓦數，細空間就不用大瓦數，40瓦膽機足夠二三百尺空間啦。 |
yt 正式會員 61.xxx.xxx.127 |
2015-10-27 01:55 |
| [#6] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 電源訊噪，，，，，，，， 電源訊噪點攪好呢，，，，D電源訊噪走晒去D器材，放大放大再放大，，，， 想唔亂過黑澤明就無可能啦。。。。。。。。 |
yt 正式會員 61.xxx.xxx.127 |
2015-10-27 02:11 |
| [#7] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 現時聽單一樂器或者两三個樂器合演奏的音樂都非常滿意，例如有些感覺有糖衣，有些感覺有天赖之音 --＞ it's much easier to achieve good female voice. But some single instruments are difficult to reproduce. Not sure what instrument you're talking about? Violin and Piano solo or sonatas not only requires gear qualities, but also precise speaker positioning. 一問题就係一播大棚野(例如有5個以上合奏)的交嚮樂就會感覺到只有一堆亂野, 分吾到大棚野的樂器的位置/和層次--＞ too many variables. not all orchestra recording are recorded to reproduce pinpoint imagining. Are you sure what you are listening to are those 'pinpointed-imaging' recording? You must make sure that they are first. But even for non-pinpointed recordings, it shouldn't be chaos. It should give you a feeling music blended together but not chaos. Chaos is often a result of bad speaker positioning and room acoustics. To put into extreme, a mini hifi will give you very good imaging if positioning and room acoustics are right (even though the music reproduced are not excellent in quality). Chaos won't happen even for mini hifi in good room with good speaker positioning. How to have excellent performance of orchestra work is a question of higher level in my opinion. The word 'chaos' is a very fundamental problem probably not related to quality of gears. My 2 cents. |
zbigniew821 正式會員 116.xxx.xxx.251 |
2015-10-27 02:26 |
| [#8] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 玩地。。。。。 玩地會有很好效果，真係會無咁亂，不過有點貴。 |
yt 正式會員 61.xxx.xxx.127 |
2015-10-27 02:34 |
| [#9] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 如果大棚野未得，即係單一件都係錯的， 只是自我感覺良好，我以前都係咁， 你較聲，喇叭擺位應該以大棚野來開始， 並非滿足於一件半件，而且唔全面， 大棚野撈埋一舊，是分析力不足， 音場撐唔開，無晒層次， 而你有隔離牛（我都有玩有幫助的） 合適電源線可以幫到撐開音場，當然喇叭擺位要配合， 而前級，解碼都要有一定分析力先成事， 實際聽音環境多大亦係問題 |
zoneaudio 正式會員 116.xxx.xxx.163 |
2015-10-27 08:11 |
| [#10] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 當你覺得你套機玩得掂大棚嘢嘅時候，倒轉頭你會發現啲三重奏四重奏要播得好其實仲難過大棚交響樂。 |
whizmika 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.209 |
2015-10-27 10:13 |
| [#11] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 當你覺得你套機玩得掂大棚嘢嘅時候，倒轉頭你會發現啲三重奏四重奏要播得好其實仲難過大棚交響樂。 ____ 有深度，有練歷的評價！ 所以要玩兩套！ |
icefox_2001 正式會員 101.xxx.xxx.8 |
2015-10-27 10:34 |
| [#12] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 小弟並非發燒友但都有點要求, 曾經試過將器材由客廳搬去飯廳打長聽. 開聲嚴重渾亂, 經資深朋友指導下. 是環境反射導致. 及後於牆角,器材後加入一此吸及反的物料後完全改善下來. 雖不知道樓主環境如何, 但都給予一點小經驗 |
mentos 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.233 |
2015-10-27 10:59 |
| [#13] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 其實，講嚟講去，都係聆聽環境尺寸，房間處理，諧振，同埋電嘅處理，配上配搭得宜嘅重播器材及線材。 我個人認為係無話邊樣先邊樣後，邊樣緊要啲邊樣次要，每個調整方案其實目標方向都係一致，但到實行時就每一套系統（包括環境）都屬個別例子。吾之甘貽，彼之砒霜。 帖內師兄們嘅提議都屬正路嘅法子，一試無妨。 |
whizmika 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.209 |
2015-10-27 11:47 |
| [#14] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 好多謝各位師兄的寶貴經驗和分享，實在不容易。... 首先先回答返師兄既一些問题： (1)音源有: (a) Roksan CD機， (2) 電腦 無損音樂 (但如播出同一首歌, 電腦播的的比 CD 還要好聴一的！) (2)解碼 係 PS audio DAC. (3) 如果用石機 moon係合併機, 會有加用 DIY 胆buffer 在石機前，去加小小膽味。但加或不加都無變，大棚交嚮樂一樣亂！ (4) 如果用 DIY 805, 前级係 DIY 膽 M7 . (5) 如果 DIY KT150 ，就係合併機。 (6)喇叭較到有结像，舞台感。(但只係單一或小樂器而言，例如：Violin and Piano solo or sonatas ) (6)空間係比較死，前一手間的無得改: 闊 2.4 米，高2.7, 長7.4米。(有做小小吸音和擴散處理)四角也做了處理，如果吾係, 現時都吾會聽單一樂器或者两三個樂器合演奏的音樂都非常滿意的。 (例如有些感覺有糖衣，有些感覺有天赖之音)。。。 但無論以上怎样做，，做了這樣多野，始终唯一問题就係一播大棚野(例如有5個以上合奏)的交嚮樂就會感覺到只有一堆亂野, 分吾到大棚野的樂器的位置/和層次。。。，會感覺有層漠，一個字"亂"... 睇来真係正如師兄所講，有一得就會有一失；或者要 set 两套系统，才能两者兼得？ 無論怎樣，都多謝各位師兄指教和經驗分享的。。。 最後修改時間: 2015-10-27 23:03:01 |
jamesckm 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.4 |
2015-10-27 22:59 |
| [#15] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 Hi James hing I have no doubts all other ching inputs would alter / improve a system sound. As whizmika hing brilliantly puts it, in an ideal scenario, everything is important. All are valid factors. Some cables really sucks, some alter some frequencies and soundstage width, some being neutral. Without good speaker support soundstage could be chaos too since vibration affect a lot of things - bass solidarity, soundstage width, treble ringing (but your fin is floorstander - btw, have you plug the bass hole?). Ideally, we should improve everything. But we are human, and can only focus on one thing at a time (at least to me) and study in depth how one particular factor affects the problem you are addressing. But since you use VA Finn, the support should be no problem since it has official spikes (unless you haven't screwed them tightly). It has 91db sensitivity, and your moon is theoretically enough, not to mention you have a tube buffer. You haven;t mentioned cables. SOme cables really sucks, even branded. Very good exotic brand cables may be used for finetuning. But at this stage, will you consider using professional, natural cables first? Everyone has their problem solution 'protocol'. I tend to think as far as 'chaos' is concerned, the first most effective way is to look at how you placed your speakers (though cables and other things may mess up things too; but to produce chaos, the easiest culprit may be speaker positioning and room acoustics). So to help solve your problem you need to put a pic of your setup and home surrounding. Or at least a simple pic but with KEY furniture and racks, place of gears, where you sit, and speaker positioning, with dimensions and distance from walls. So DO you mean you only have 2.4m as the WIDTH OF THE ROOM? or 2.4m as the space between the speakers? HOW FAR AWAY ARE THE SPEAKERS FROM THE REAR AND SIDE WALLS? Some quick and fast rule, perhaps: 1. Speakers too close to the back / rear walls may create boom and over-coloured mids. Your VA has adjustable bass plug. Try it. And bring out the speakers away from the back walls until the bass is clean enough but at the same time not thin (using several super-bass cds or songs). Use several types of bass CDs. Try to find a compromise since no rooms without serious treatments produce perfect range of bass. But find a speaker position with above average bass first. 2. After determining bass (temporarily), find the optimal speaker separation / distance from each other and walls. Speakers very close to the side wall make soundstage thin. May feel a certain kind of chaos (since the instruments are not solid enough). Speakers TOO CLOSE TOGETHER will be congested, leading to another kind of 'chaos' (the instruments do not have enough separation). You have to find an optimal position which give a clear image of orchestra (use good recording). Ideally, it should be a point where single instrument also sounds the best, and vocals as well. But it may take time for us to find that perfect compromise position. For the time being, please find a position where at least the chaos disappear. VA Finn is a good choice, as it's small. But 8ft may be still too close to produce a good soundstage (if you placed the speakers in the 'shorter' sides, facing the longer area, with length 7.4m). You could still try experimenting the speaker distance as described above though. 3. You may also need FULL TOE-IN to reduce side-wall reflections. Your speakers, if in the shorter sides, may have too many reflections. You may choose to sit CLOSER to the speakers to avoid hearing too much reflections. The above three ways are standard ways of adjusting speakers to achieve much better sound, though may not be practical in some home. It apparently doesn't cost you real money, but you really have to practice it with patience. And time is money :) Diffusors or other materials may be discussed later. One problem at a time. Or if you think cable is the culprit. Try as many cables as you like and see if you could cure the chaos problem. But using one means at a time otherwise it will confuse you :) 最後修改時間: 2015-10-28 00:12:18 |
zbigniew821 正式會員 116.xxx.xxx.251 |
2015-10-28 00:04 |
| [#16] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 如果大棚野未得，即係單一件都係錯的， 只是自我感覺良好，我以前都係咁，--＞ I agree with this as well. If the speakers are correctly placed and all other things are really 'correct', it should reproduce good sound for BOTH single instruments and orchestra. If you think your system can play single instruments well, it may be a subjective 'feeling'. I noted you said "有些感覺有糖衣，有些感覺有天赖之音" but is that the original cd is supposed to be sounded? Sometimes 天赖之音 may be distortion of what original recording should sound. I had this kind of wrong perception before. One possible way to solve this is to invest in a DAC or just headphone amp with a good headphone. It may not be necessary with high hands, but from time to time I still found it very useful for me to know what the original recording is supposed to be sound like, without room coloration or other problems. THE HEADPHONES COULD GIVE A GOOD STANDARD (not a perfect, but good) to help you judge if your 天赖之音 is distortion or really true reproduction of the cd sound. With an excellent headphone system you could also know how the non-chaotic orchestra sound should sound like as well. This help you judge your speaker positionings. As you do not seem to know how to judge, the headphone may SAVE you a lot of time in your learning and finetuning process. |
zbigniew821 正式會員 116.xxx.xxx.251 |
2015-10-28 00:43 |
| [#17] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 事實CD機出的聲唔應同DAC出的分差好大, 糾正少少而言, 同一支曲在不同的播放方式上都唔應出太大/明顯出入. 這是我一直覺得應是如此的. "如果大棚野未得，即係單一件都係錯的，只是自我感覺良好，我以前都係咁..." 呢句好同意, 也就是因此有些人聽到一支鋼琴協奏曲時清時亂了. 最後修改時間: 2015-10-28 08:23:14 |
kl122002 會員 210.xxx.xxx.217 |
2015-10-28 08:22 |
| [#18] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 唔會大到朗朗嘅蕭邦變咗李雲迪嘅蕭邦，但要由演奏廳門外變皇帝位絕對係可以。 |
whizmika 正式會員 119.xxx.xxx.112 |
2015-10-28 08:58 |
| [#19] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 亦要留意電源及電源線的相位是否正確。 |
hkc 正式會員 124.xxx.xxx.217 |
2015-10-28 10:30 |
| [#20] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 #14 師兄要留意DiY 嘢好多時都偏咗， 成套機DiY一件半件好La， 以前自己（冷）勁成套DiY ， 結果偏到阿媽都唔認得， 好彩識得番轉頭..... 現在只有一件DiY 300B ， 一件膽phono amp， 做件膽phono仲要買件皮幾野廠phono amp 番來比較， 咁做起碼有小小參考，不至於偏得太遠 所以套機有DiY嘢要識得分析有無走偏， 如果無就恭喜晒 |
zoneaudio 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.97 |
2015-10-28 13:17 |
