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| [#1] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are bad recordings or challenging to Hifi? I found his CD "The Cook The Thief His wife and Her lover" difficult to have good sound. I tried in different systems in different places. I like the 'songs' of this CD very much. But I find it difficult to play it with good sound. Any similar experience? |
zbigniew821 正式會員219.xxx.xxx.114 |
2008-07-29 23:32 | |
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| [#2] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are bad Want to know if someone can say if he/she can play this CD with very good result ...  |
zbigniew821 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.114 |
2008-07-29 23:34 |
| [#3] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are bad I bought this soundtrack soon after watching the Peter Greenaway film many years ago. I would say it is that kind of typical soundtrack transcriptions, which sounds hauntingly moving in the cinema but falls short as a standalone piece of music work, like in the Chariots of Fire by Vangelis, the choir works in the track "Jerusalem" brought tears to me in the film, but outside of the cinema without the visual image, it is just another piece of chorus work. Also the scale of cinematic shock is simply not achievable at home even with very good AV systems, regardless of the system used ... say I'm a cynic, but to put it simply, 99.99% of domestic listening space DO NOT have the same volume of air as in the most modest cinema. That makes a lot of differences. |
notmychartwell 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.230 |
2008-07-30 00:37 |
| [#4] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are bad notmychartwell hing, your response is highly ironic to me! I do not necessarily agree with you that soundtrack works cannot be complete works on its own (I hope you accept our difference in points of view la!). But your response does lead me to think about the difference between domestic and cinematic experience. Perhaps you're right ... domestic system can seldom reproduce the aura of good cinematic experience. Maybe I am chasing a ghost! But if you're right, i am disappointed .. since I can never enjoy that experience again at home. Ironic. Btw, I went to Michael Nyman concert several years ago, did you go as well? |
zbigniew821 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.114 |
2008-07-30 01:27 |
| [#5] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are bad zbigniew821 hing, I have to say there also are many excellent soundtracks that make their own worth, but so very subjectively among many others, I still prefer Michael Nyman's soundtracks served with the film, like and , that the audio image is just so closely integrated with its visual counterpart. My other example is the Chariots of Fire, which is undoubtedly a masterpiece on its own, and it even won an Oscar as a trophy, but for me, much of its impact goes away with the image. On scales of music reproduction, I've been trying to wear different hats to listen to domestic reproductions (home hifi) and professional reproductions (cinema), trying to avoid comparing them with live performances, but still, people know me in the real person also know that I am a non-believer in home hifi. In this regard I tend not to buy expensive distortions (!) and so the laws of diminishing returns hit me very low. Of course my preference remains my own, and it goes without saying, it will not compromise those of other music lovers :) |
notmychartwell 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.230 |
2008-07-30 03:06 |
| [#6] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are bad Punctuation errors, it should be "... among many others, I still prefer Michael Nyman's soundtracks served with the film, like "Piano" and "The Cook ..." |
notmychartwell 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.230 |
2008-07-30 03:12 |
| [#7] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are bad "Btw, I went to Michael Nyman concert several years ago, did you go as well?" Ah, no, I'm not aware of it until you told me just now :} How do you like it ? |
notmychartwell 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.230 |
2008-07-30 03:33 |
| [#8] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are bad Yes, notmychartwell hing, I agree very much most of the times feelings about music are very subjective, depending on one's worldviews, experience and countless factors. I can totally understand the view that the magic of soundtracks can fade away for some people outside the cinema. I am glad you respect that for some like me find something interesting in soundtracks on their own. Too much energy in parts of this forum has been spent on achieving 100% truth regarding hifi and music tastes. In particular this particular message of yours is haunting ... "I am a non-believer in home hifi. In this regard I tend not to buy expensive distortions (!) and so the laws of diminishing returns hit me very low" An excellent reminder to me or anyone who suddenly wants to achieve something impossible in reality. Thank you so much, indeed! |
zbigniew821 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.192 |
2008-07-31 00:56 |
| [#9] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are bad "Btw, I went to Michael Nyman concert several years ago, did you go as well?" "Ah, no, I'm not aware of it until you told me just now :} How do you like it ?" It should be 4 years ago? It's held in Tsuen Wan or somewhere in NT. It's a shame that not many people go. Maybe the promotion was too weak, and partly because not many HK people remember him after "Piano". Many seats were empty. Michael Nyman brought less than 10 persons to come with him and the hall is ok. The performance wasn't particularly excellent and to see him performing live is good enough. It's a shame that only u and me are talking about him in r33. Audiophiles seem to listen to music in a particular universe. |
zbigniew821 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.192 |
2008-07-31 01:01 |
| [#10] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are bad It's a shame that only u and me are talking about him in r33. Audiophiles seem to listen to music in a particular universe. ＞＞ zbigniew821 hing, It's not necessary for you to be so cynical. Everyone has his own choice. Good music/literature doesn't mean everyone likes and for it. composer used to be alone not to mention the reader. I believe you're not alone but there are just a few comrades here in this forum. I start to learn MN from movie when I was a college student dates back to early 1990s. If you like movie, you know many soundtracks are the painstaking effort of those great composers. So far, I got 3 only of MN's works, all bought years ago. Frankly speaking, I would just listen to them occasionally. MN's music do pose a demanding effect to one's hifi system as to certain extent it's extreme on both HF and HF ends.  |
ck2005 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.94 |
2008-07-31 23:24 |
| [#11] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are bad HF and LF ends. |
ck2005 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.94 |
2008-07-31 23:26 |
| [#12] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are bad Thanks, ck2005 hing, "It's not necessary for you to be so cynical" Oh I may write in another 'arrogant' way. It was not my intent, and it's not what I thought. I love diversity. My listening range from canto-pop to jap pop to Deep Purple to Mozart to New Order to Modern English to Terrsa Tang to Kenny Choi to .... I just detected a many audiophile's CD manufacturers made only certain kind of music. The real world of music and audiophile's CD belong to different universe. For example, how to judge 'industrial noise' / 'experimental' music from a hifi point of view? It's therefore interesting to see people loving Dead Can Dance here. Another composer I love is Zbigniew Presiner. That's why my nickname is zbigniew hahaha! |
zbigniew821 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.246 |
2008-08-01 00:00 |
| [#13] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are bad zbigniew821, of course I can guess the origin of your nick name. Now you got the right comrade! For movie lover like me, I won't miss Preisner's music. Diversity? For sure la!!  |
ck2005 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.94 |
2008-08-01 00:31 |
| [#14] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are ba Hello guys, we've got company ! Hi ck2005 Incidentally I have Ute Lemper's "Illusions" CD. I think I first know her in the Roger Waters The Wall Concert in Potsdamer Platz Summer 1990 after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Love her cabaret style in covering Edith Piaf's La Vie en Rose :) Hi zbigniew821 Great name you have ! I have The Double Life of Veronique in LD, and it is my fav after the Bleu, Blanc et Rouge. I should have noticed your user ID earlier but well, I didn't :) Interesting to have some talks on music on r33 :) Last week I jammed in another thread on the Japanese violinist Ryu Goto only to find that there were "just the two of us" who have been writing about him; and I've also joined a two-man-only discussion on music critics. Sometimes I just feel so lonely to get so few responses to postings other than on gear talks :} http://www.review33.com/avforum/forum_message.php?topic=73080726233437 http://www.review33.com/avforum/forum_message.php?topic=73080715211323 I've been a gearhead in my younger days too, but then I've been so lucky to join some news works with two radio services in the UK, where I've played with amplifiers that could reheat pizza or loudspeakers resembling washing machines, there my course of music listening was forever changed. Really knowledgable people in the radio have done so much to tweak reproductions with humble and robust equipment to cater for different programmes and occasions, that could have put most of the hifi showrooms to dust. Yet they never attacked different followings by badmouthing. This is something I yet to learn. My mentor loved to say, "Well you can get close to the original performance, and given astronomical resources you can get really close to the original performance, but up to a point you will find that further time and money would be better spent elsewhere. Dear boy, hifi is a distraction, now leave the fiddling to us and you go enjoying the music, and your life !" I can't agree more that the English are cynical, but he gets the point right on. My radio experience shaped my preference, and told me that I should not keep comparing hifi reproduction to live performance to no end. I've mentioned in other threads that we should get a chance to visit a pro studio (not necessarily that from a radio), where they can really demonstrate how music can be reproduced. That would save us a lot of time and expensive mistakes. And I have to add, I very much appreciate what hifi had brought us ... think about this : music lovers in Bach's times, no matter how well off, simply could not listen to music everday, on demand; and today a seasoned music lover could have listened to more music than Mozart himself throughout his life ! |
notmychartwell 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.230 |
2008-08-01 02:04 |
| [#15] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are ba Wow! Interesting notmychartwell and ck2005 hing has made a lot of thoughtful remarks that lead me to think ... I will take more time to respond to many points you guys made, but for now I just wanna tell you I have paid HK$500 dollars to buy a rare zbigniew CD from ebay (I have looked around for years ... ok I managed to download here and there to compile that CD in CD-R format, but I dun like this since it's not original). That CD is .... http://209.85.175.104/search?q=cache:v5BKmPrcVggJ:cgi.ebay.pl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D360030956533+%22QUARTET+IN+4+MOVEMENTS%22+OST+CD&hl=zh-TW&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=hk Despite the probably ugly cover, its music is good (at least for me) ...  |
zbigniew821 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.25 |
2008-08-01 02:53 |
| [#16] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are ba Oi ! This Quartet is new to me ! Please tell me more :) Talking about "industrial noise / experimental music", how do you like Einsturzende Neubauten ? One of their previous members Mark Chung is a Hong Kong Chinese, now a music producer based in Berlin. A few months ago their interview was on DW-TV through NowTV, too bad the programme was in German ! |
notmychartwell 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.230 |
2008-08-01 03:03 |
| [#17] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are ba notmychartwell hing, one of your comment (rather consistent) is that hifi world is so different from live performances so much so that pursuing perfection in hifi can waste one's energy. I cannot agree anymore though sometimes and actually now I am tuning this system with this incorrect motivation from time to time controlling me! But I wanna take further. Your comments about live performance ... What is live performance anyway? In r33 and many other forums, one typical response is that 'hey guys, you have to go to live performance if you wanna know what is real music! Without extensive experience in live performance your hifi taste is doomed to be inferior since you dun have the real-world live perfoemance yardstick by which you can judge your hifi system'. I find this comment only true to some limited extent as far as we think deeply what consitutes live performance. Ok, classical music is a classical kind of live performance. Often guys refer to well-built concert hall. But what about other performing places? Zbigniew Preisner perform in a underground mine. Violins of course remained violins. But the ambience is so different from cocnert halls. Would audiophiles listening to that CD (veronica) and say it's not hifi??? I thought we should enterin the notion of different standards of 'live performance' in the world of music. For eletronic music, traditional notion does not work since 'live' eletronic music often requires very powerful amplfiers and often loud voulme. This 'electrified' performance is still live performance! Unless you denigrate every kind of eletronic music as rubbish (for they're not pure classical music), one need to adopt a different notion of what 'live' is. I am not only talking about pop here (Depeche Mode for an example) but also advant garde or others (Brian Eno for an example). So how about Temple Street Canto Opera? It's certainly not concert hall again. It's a fifferent type of live, there're only DIRECT sound and no reflection. There're also sound from the crowd or mosquitoes. It's another type of enjoyable music which traditional notion cannot help. I have written too much ... |
zbigniew821 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.25 |
2008-08-01 03:06 |
| [#18] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are ba I can burn you a CD and post it to you later. You have to destory it after listening once ... ( ^ ^ ) I know new technology can do this though (i mean self-destruction of the CD after being played once). Einsturzende Neubauten? I got three of their CDs (the best kind of thing). I am not its follower but I do find them very interesting. Of course, from hifi standard ... rubbish. I had two CDs called sth like 'history of experimental / electronic music' which even I found a very biazzare listening experience! I have to admit I like Depeche Mode's Construction Time Again more ... (Some Great Reward is also good). Do you listen to them? "One of their previous members Mark Chung is a Hong Kong Chinese, now a music producer based in Berlin." I really dunno this! What an achievement for a Chinese in GERMANY! |
zbigniew821 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.25 |
2008-08-01 03:15 |
| [#19] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are ba Well you can get close to the original performance, and given astronomical resources you can get really close to the original performance, but up to a point you will find that further time and money would be better spent elsewhere. Dear boy, hifi is a distraction, now leave the fiddling to us and you go enjoying the music, and your life !" ＞＞ If I've learnt the words from your mentor a bit earlier, I won't get lost then!! |
ck2005 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.230 |
2008-08-01 09:39 |
| [#20] Anyone likes Michael Nyman? His CDs are ba zbigniew82 hing and ck2005 hing, interesting that we get to this stage from Michael Nyman :) 2 very interesting points are brought up -- 1/ What is live performance ? And 2/ "Live on Temple Street". I think our perceptions on live performance should be freed from the unamplified concerts in concert halls as in the European tradition. Temple Street performers may play in open space with rudimentary amplifiers or even unplugged, and so to me, this belongs to street music, a different notion to our perceived live performance in the City Hall for example. If we shall make comparison between the hifi reproduction and the live performance of Temple Street Canto Opera, the yardstick should be their original performance on Temple Street. In this regard, I once bumped into a very impressive reproduction of "Oil Lo Bai Sau" by Leung Sing Bor in a mezz floor shop on Apliu St, which I consider very good hifi because it brought me that intimate feeling of sharing the same stage with our beloved "Bor Suk" so many years after he left us. That's also the beauty of hifi. Violins in a hall, violins in a mine, or violins in open space (eg for Gypsy or Celtic folk dances) are still violins, no doubt about it, only they serve different occasions. To take it further, Yamaha make an amplified violin that comes without the hollow body which signifies the sound of a particular violin in a traditional sense, and to everyone's surprise Yamaha "reinvented" violin. With it, Midge Ure of Ultravox, Vanessa Mae, the Bond Girls, even Paul Weller, just to name a few, had made themselves famous. Even Sting had used a similar variation of a double bass in his Dream of The Blue Turtles concert series in sports complexes. Is it still violin ? Is it still double bass ? Getting further on this would eventually bring us to "what defines a violin" at a metaphysical level :-D Are Einsturzende Neubauten's works hifi ? There we may have to define hifi : per verbatim, hifi is high fidelity, which is self-explanatory. Taking a few hundred watts from Bob Carver's amps driving JBL 4345 at levels that shake your stomach and you get the original performance of Einsturzende Neubauten's works, whether you want to achieve this "hifi" at home would depend on a whole lot of other factors, including the relationship with your neighbours :-D Pete Townshend may be more qualified to tell you this, since he and The Who are notoriously known for using four pairs of 4350s to monitor their original recordings ! The original performace of their works are meant to be played amplified at deafening levels, how to repeat this outside of their studio is another interpretation of hifi. Of course when the market wants, they are also too willing to do it again unplugged. I have the CD "Music from Vietnam" which, to my taste, is a very contradicting piece of work. The CD is excellent though I have no particular attachment to Vietnamese music, but the Swedish rendering of the Vietnamese artists is so transparent and "cool" in the respectful Scandinavian style that the whole piece of work lacked the sparkle of the "heat and sweat" perception of Vietnam. Is it a good piece of work ? Of course it is. Is it close to the original performance ? I doubt it :} Another extreme example is the all too famous soundtrack for the Taiwanese film "A City of Sadness", which I conceded that I don't know how to get the reference because most of it was synthesized music, and to me, this is a soundtrack equally haunting without the film ! I think hifi is all about how the reproduction comes close to, or far from, the original performance, as long as it sounds pleasing to the listener. There are a few examples I can explain why I keep talking about we should not compare hifi to live performances too strictly : 1/ my wife, once in a while, would say, hey, the sound from that set up is not like that of a violin, but it sounds even more beautiful and I like it ! 2/ I once stood 5 feet next to a bagpipe player in Edinburgh with no way out, the peformance for the Celtic marches was just so majestic but unthreatening, and after that I will never forget how a bagpipe sounds even though he might not be the best player in town (!) Then many years later I auditioned a very expensive setup playing bagpipes but it just sounded not right, at least to me ! Both are examples of reproductions far from the original performance, and is exactly the whole point of "expensive distortions", which some music lovers would find them appealing :) Love it or loath it it's all up to the ear of the beholder. If there is a term to define this, I would say it ranges from being make-ups to face-lifts for music :-D I think it's just fine, except that it's not my cup of tea :) |
notmychartwell 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.230 |
2008-08-01 11:58 |
