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[#1] Can HTPC Beat CD Player? The discussion of optimal PC settings for high-quality sound playback, without using CD as media. The sound playback via computer is also known as "CAS" (Computer as source), or DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) in professional field. This thread is targeted for experienced PC users. In-depth PC hardware and software configuration may be discussed. For PC novices or anyone who would like a simpler PC solution, please refer to 3zone hing's thread "eeePC & USB DAC - Computer As Source (CAS)"		appleteapot 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.13	2009-02-03 02:11

[#2] Can HTPC Beat CD Player?
Firstly, personally I'm not total agree the title of the thread as appleteapot started as previously "最勁 HTPC 有可能靚聲過 CD 機嗎?" and "HTPC Beat CD Player?", if the thread is going to exchange information and experience on computer as source, while stay neutral in the value judgment in sound quality, to minimize argument and fire between CAS and traditional audiophile.

I'm not a experienced PC audio user anyway, now using ESI Juli@ with a fanless ATOM mini-itx and 16G SSD and waiting for Buffalo DAC. Just for playing Hi-Rez 24/96 materials, it's not a CD player for me, CD and SACD still play in CDT+DAC and SACD Player.

I'm using very angry about the file archiving and format support by various program in Windows, also the cover art retrieve and management. My music is mainly classical, you know how many information to be input for one classical Music, composer, conductor, orchestra, soloist, recording year, movements of the works, it's a nightmare if such information not available on CDDB or freeDB, even have, the information for 2CD album is not consistence for Disc 1 and Disc 2 as the input made by two difference uploader.

foobar2000 is best in format supporting but not the best sounding program, Cplay gives best sound but only support individual Flac, Wav and Cuesheet of them, itunes got nice album art management but only support wav, aiff, mp3.

So current I only rip wav, sorry no flac and ape as I'm tire of conversion and keeping both wav and ape/flac version, can't help me save disk space anyway.

I also have older archive of disc in difference formats, single flac/ape, multiple flac/ape, mp3/wma/ra/wave pack, I have to convert them back to wav one by one, for file format support reason.

for ripping and file management, as above program don't really supporting single and the best file format for me, and classical music got a lot of gap-less music (no silent gap/break between tracks), I must reserve all timing information of the tracks on the disc. so the best is cue sheet + multiple wav for each track. then the problem is wav don't have tag information, all composer, conductor, orchestra, soloist, recording year, movements of the works have to presence on the filename in order to make me recognize the recorded material, then some European characters, separators and length of the filenames cannot supported by current windows and above program, I have to edit both filenames and cu esheet information in order to be playable. I know if I playing pop and jazz, the life would be easier, but I'm playing music, not audio equipments, I won't change my music genre and habit for a piece of equipment.

File backup is also a headache for me, for a silent HTPC, you should keep anything that spinning out of the case, using SSD is fine, but the music library to be ultimately store in several GB even TB of disc space, so I have to use separate harddisk for system and music library and ideally using NAS with Raid mirroring, if you are not keen to made manual backup.

CAS is not going to replace my CD library and CD player for me at this moment if above difficulties not solved, it's not the matter of sound quality only but a total user experience. so PC is my Hi-Resolution File source, as I'm not keen on doing up sampling, at the same time I keep vinyl LP, SACD Player, DVD-Audio Player and CD transport+DAC combo.

So I don't wanna talk CAS better or CD player better at this moment, it's just two difference world of audio source for me.

hercules

正式會員
218.xxx.xxx.219

2009-02-03 08:31

[#3] Can HTPC Beat CD Player?
報到

DeepSea^^

正式會員
218.xxx.xxx.203

2009-02-03 09:16

[#4] Can HTPC Beat CD Player?
I agree with hercules that I2S is a better interface for DAC connection.

I2S transmission provides separate clock wire and makes master clock reference possible.

Time error (jitter) appears at the DAC. The master clock should be located and generated in the DAC. With proper implementation of I2S, it is much easy to get good sound from I2S (compared to the coaxial and optical interface).

lam1997

正式會員
218.xxx.xxx.207

2009-02-03 11:03

[#5] Can HTPC Beat CD Player?
A good combo using I2S:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/aprilmusic2/stello.html

CKL2

正式會員
143.xxx.xxx.8

2009-02-03 11:12

[#6] Can HTPC Beat CD Player?
I do not mind your guys promoting htpc and cas but it should be neutral and unbiased. I believe htpc and cas had a long way to go and it even cannot beat the mid-priced CD......

accphoto

正式會員
220.xxx.xxx.56

2009-02-03 12:00

[#7] Can HTPC Beat CD Player?
Hercules hing, I totally understand your frustration about file management, as I experienced the same problems. Yet I 'partially' solved them and I just let myself be setlled with the solutions.

"foobar2000 is best in format supporting but not the best sounding program, Cplay gives best sound but only support individual Flac, Wav and Cuesheet of them, itunes got nice album art management but only support wav, aiff, mp3.

So current I only rip wav, sorry no flac and ape as I'm tire of conversion and keeping both wav and ape/flac version, can't help me save disk space anyway.""

Yes, foobar may sound not as good as Cplay. But foobar has progressed into a more powerful file management program. I just discovered the newest version can update the media library as long as you changed (deleted or added) files through windows explorer. So you no longer need to rescan Media library to get the update info about the folder in which you store music. In this case, I feel more powerful in swtiching between windows explorer and foobar in adding and deleting audio files.

Further, foobar is good in file conversion as well. Changing APE, FLAC and WAVE is a piece of cake now. I have done many experiments through bit compare (in foobar), and all files converted are bit-correct. I am migrating all files to FLAC since as you said, FLAC can be tagged but not WAVE. If you feel unhappy about FLAC, you can always reverted back to WAVE with one click and they're bit-perfect, correct, with no differences between FLAC and WAVE.

And with the 'filter' and playlist function, you can actually 'batch' convert all files (let's say 1,000 files) from one format to another in the same folder where individual files are stored.

Of course, with so many functions, foobar is no longer a pure player as purist would have want it. But after converting all files to FLAC, you can use Cplay.

finally I accept the above ....

zbigniew821

正式會員
220.xxx.xxx.2

2009-02-03 13:44

[#8] Can HTPC Beat CD Player?
At the moment I open Foobar and Cplay simultaneously. I use Foobar to create .m3u playlists, then use my little stupid VB program to play the .m3u playlist. So I don't create any cue sheets.

appleteapot

正式會員
219.xxx.xxx.144

2009-02-03 15:34

[#9] Can HTPC Beat CD Player?
appleteapot hing, could you share with us again with your little program and instructions here? I couldn't locate where they are in your original thread (too long!) thanks in advance!

zbigniew821

正式會員
203.xxx.xxx.87

2009-02-03 15:49

[#10] Stello 100 series
＞＞＞ A good combo using I2S:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/aprilmusic2/stello.html

Absolutely agree. I did audited to this Stello combo once and it sounds very attractive !!

vash

正式會員
203.xxx.xxx.79

2009-02-03 16:10

[#11] Stello 100 series
zbigniew821 hing,

I use VB 2008 (Visual Studio 2008) to create a one button program, form source code as below. Foobar playlist is hardcoded as say C:cics.m3u, and cplay is hardcoded in c:program filescicsplaycicsplay.exe.

Public Class Form1

Private Sub Button1_Click(ByVal sender As System.Object, ByVal e As System.EventArgs) Handles Button1.Click

FileOpen(1, "c:cics.m3u", OpenMode.Input)

Dim trackname As String

Dim myProcess As Process = New Process

myProcess.StartInfo.FileName = "c:Progra~1cicspl~1cicsPlay.exe"

' myProcess.StartInfo.WindowStyle = ProcessWindowStyle.Minimized

Do Until EOF(1)

trackname = LineInput(1)

myProcess.StartInfo.Arguments = trackname
myProcess.Start()
myProcess.WaitForExit()
myProcess.Close()
Loop
FileClose()
End Sub
End Class

appleteapot

正式會員
203.xxx.xxx.13

2009-02-03 19:18

[#12] Can HTPC Beat CD Player?
不同經f，不同意見，不同聲音，這世界才會多姿多彩。

DeepSea^^

正式會員
218.xxx.xxx.203

2009-02-03 23:40

[#13] Can HTPC Beat CD Player?
Not going to let it into any debate.

But....... The topic should be more concrete and realistic.

And to most of the HK's audiophile, more concrete and realistic should really mean: Is HTPC more cost effective or simple than CD player playback ? It should be something about constraint maximization.

If so, I vote for yes. At least, I save myself a transport/ DAC or a cd/SACD player and so an extra pair of interconnects, plus a few other power cables and also a coaxial cable.

Let's say we are in a new or some computer era, and assuming if the law of survival of the fittest is true, why refrain from this new way. learn and enjoy or vice versa can simultaneously happens :)

I don't even believe in those terms so called analogue or digital sound. I trust my ears and I provoke computer audio x00% both in terms of a economical and aesthetic way.

johnchoy

正式會員
119.xxx.xxx.197

2009-02-04 01:19

[#14] Can HTPC Beat CD Player?
Deepsea 近排有沒甚麼新的祕技... 有的話我第一個排隊等抄碌士

appleteapot

正式會員
203.xxx.xxx.13

2009-02-04 01:24

[#15] Can HTPC Beat CD Player?
appleteapot hing,thank you very very much. I'll try when I have the time! Although I won't understand what you HIGHLY experienced pc users played regarding HTPC, I do admire your pesistence, skills, and enthusiasm. You guys make the world more interesing! I only use eeepc :)

zbigniew821

正式會員
58.xxx.xxx.14

2009-02-04 01:52

[#16] Can HTPC Beat CD Player?
This thread should concentrate on how to make HPTC sound as good as a CD player.... They are two kinds of things. Just a LP diehard will always says that LP is much better than CD.....

accphoto

正式會員
220.xxx.xxx.56

2009-02-04 11:09

[#17] Can HTPC Beat CD Player?
Appleteapot 兄，近來間中玩下調音，響受音樂多，無乜研究新秘技。你都心照不宣我已經做到了發燒友一直追求的東西，既然已經到了響受期，所以我都好少出聲，站在一旁就手旁觀算了。
現在多數深居簡出，不思進取，不求上進，荒費學習，固步自封，好逸惡勞，自甘墮落，安逸享受，不聞不問，停頓不前，態度馬虎，原地踏步..........不苟言笑。

DeepSea^^

正式會員
218.xxx.xxx.203

2009-02-04 13:33

[#18] Can HTPC Beat CD Player?
Dear all,

I am interested in CAS and consider building one for my CD collection. I have a fundamental question. Assuming my budget (for the computer and the DAC alone) is around HK$20,000, what should be the spending proportion between these two elements? For example:

1. 50% (Computer) and 50% (DAC);
2. 30% (Computer) and 70% (DAC); or
3. 70% (Computer) and 30% (DAC).

Personally, I think option 2 seems right as the processing power of the computer does not have to be great. If that is the case, the following Atom set seems OK. Because of its low power output, no fan is required to dissipate the heat generated through the Atom processor:-

"日前行經腦場，打算添置一部準系統，據 Capital 表示最近引入由 MSI 推出的 Wind Nettop CS 100 ，採用 Intel Atom 230 處理器，時脈為 1.6GHz ，，整台機運作最高只有 35w 弁荂A處理器散熱弁荈 4W ，是一般桌上型處理器的十六分之一，其聲噪則只有約 30dBi ，適合用家打造寧靜省電的電腦系統。

由於採用低弁 Atom 處理器，除可打造靜音系統外， 24 小時全速運作可節省約 90% 的電力，既可節省用電量，又可為保護環境出一分力。

MSI Wind Nettop CS 120 體積細小，尺寸只有 (300 × 240 x 65 )mm ，方便用家節省空間。其採用的主機板搭載 945GC 晶片組，配合 ICH7 南橋晶片，提供 2 組 SATA 連接埠，是市面上十分普遍的組合，記憶體支援 1 組 DDR2 533 記憶體模組，最高可達 2GB ，並內建繪圖核心，對於一般文書上網絕對足以應付。

準系統內建 65W 電源供應器、吸入式 DVD Super-Multi 燒錄機、四合一讀卡機等等，主機板搭載 Realtek RTL8111C 晶片，提供 Gigabit 乙太網路，並內建 ALC888 HD Codec 音效晶片，支援 7.1 聲道輸出，弁鄍i謂一應俱全。"

With a solid state harddisk, this fanless system should be very silent.