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| [#181] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier Dear Taimonsing AF-821, AF-824 or FA-723 are the preamp tuner in mono. FYI, the preamp section of FA-580 sound more hi-fi, details but with much larger gain than above models, but for FM section the old model is completely different...! The old model is much more smoother, liquid and warm...extremely natural tone...! Best regards Alan |
Pilotrol 正式會員218.xxx.xxx.126 |
2006-07-12 10:15 | |
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| [#182] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier Ace, get a 400cx or 400cx2. You will throw away your modern pre:-) __________________________________________ Agree! |
Pilotrol 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.126 |
2006-07-12 10:20 |
| [#183] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier Ace, Aliu, My Fishers found their mates: 400cx-12.1 400cx2-quadii 80c-hf35/pilot232 It's very cruel to separate the couples:-) |
rsbn589 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.51 |
2006-07-12 10:42 |
| [#184] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier i understand & i think it's hard to come up with better combos! aaron :-) |
aliu 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.96 |
2006-07-12 10:50 |
| [#185] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier K Y What about Fisher 400CX2 + Leak 12.1? I have auditioned this combo at Gingers' place many times. It is brilliant. On the other hand, I have also auditioned Richard's 400CX old version + 12.1. It is excellent, too. However, I don't have the chance to compare the two. In your case, you have both 400CX and 400CX2 and 12.1 and are able to compare them. What are your views? |
J_L 正式會員 61.xxx.xxx.111 |
2006-07-12 10:55 |
| [#186] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier very pretty 400c and it's getting expensive! http://cgi.ebay.com/Fisher-400-C-Tube-Pre-amplifier-Excellent-Amp_W0QQitemZ260006739582QQihZ016QQcategoryZ67807QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem  |
aliu 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.96 |
2006-07-12 11:02 |
| [#187] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier For the Fishees who interested the history of Fisher, I have re-cap my article written in 2005 as follows: Avery Robert Fisher born in New York on 4 March 1906. Avery's father is a music lover and he offered his six children to learn different musical entrustments. It made Avery Fisher became an amateur violinist when he growth up, who also began a remarkable career by building radios to improve sound quality for his own enjoyment since 1930's. In 1929, he graduated in New York University. He worked for two publishing firms, G.P. Putnam's Sons and Dodd, Mead & Company during which he began his endeavors in audio design and the Fisher Radio's logo (The golden swallow) was developed under his own hand. During the early 30's, He constructed his radios to obtain better sound than available models delivered. In Oct 1937, he founded his first company Philharmonic Radio with two young engineers Victor Brociner (Victor Brociner was also a pioneer and outstanding audio engineer in American hi-fi) and Leo Bogart in New York. Avery had made significant improvements in the design of amplifiers, but he is the first personal in the history sold tuner, phonographic, loudspeaker and amplifiers together at one. Avery was the first personal crated the "hi-fi business" that did not exist on the consumer market before. Philharmonic Radio offers an AM radio with 35 watts 6L6 pp amplifier with inverse feedback, with two selection of Jensen 12A or Cinaudagraph "Magic" magnet speaker built in an audio console and sold on the market at USD122.00. This became the earliest high-fidelity system sold on the market in American hi-fi history. During the WWII period, the consumer market dropped rapidly and Philharmonic Radio turned to service US Navy for producing military communication equipment. Avery Fisher sold Philharmonic Radio in 1943, but he remained in the company as consultancy for almost 2 years. In early year of Fisher, Avery Fisher bought back the Philharmonic Radio, but slowly turned this name became the one of most famous hi-fi console in Fisher history –The Philharmonic. In 1945, he started his second company in New York, "The Fisher Radio Corporation" which focused on produce high-fidelity components. In the early year Fisher only rent a small shop as a factory and shop in downtown New York. During 50's he from a factory on the site now occupied by Lincoln Center. He travel thought Europe after WWII and his engineering staff was comprised of the brightest audio technicians lured away from European companies. In the early year of Fisher, the business environment was not so good because the Television market slowly became the main stream for the consumer market, but the affect of WWII also depressed the economy as well. In 1946, a national magazine "Fortune" reported the story of Avery Fisher and his Fisher Radio Corporation. The brand of Fisher slowly became well-known in U.S. On the other hand, the popular of LP during 50's also saved the business of Fisher. In late 40's, Fisher introduced the First preamp and power amplifier system with noise compressor – Fisher SA-1. However, only very small volume of Fisher SA-1 had been sold to the market. From 1952 – 1954, Fisher introduced the first series "50", which included the first self power preamp Fisher 50-C, the highest power triode hi-fi amplifier Fisher 50-C with 1614 push-pull in triode connection at 50 watts output, Fisher 50-R AM/FM tuner, Fisher 50-PR phono preamp, Fisher 50-M Mixer and fader, Fisher 50-F the high and low frequency filter, Fisher 50 Horn load Speaker enclosure. A year after, Fisher also introduced the series "70", included Fisher 70A 25 watts power amp which is combination of Quad + Williamson circuit and 70-RT AN/FM tuner preamp. During 1953, Fisher also introduced the Z-matic system, it is the very first company introduce the variable damping control based on variable negative feedback design. The second generation of Fisher gear was big successful on the market. From 1955 – 1958, heavy competitor of hi-fi market forced Fisher to introduce the third generations of hi-fi product lines such as "125", "90", "55", "80-AZ", "20" and "CA". Fisher 90-A was the highest power rated hi-fi amplifier (consumer hi-fi market) during mid-50 and Fisher claimed it rated at 90 watts in mono. Fisher 55A became the highest power triode connection amplifier on the market and it replaced the early model of Fisher 50A, this model had been replaced by Fisher 200 in 1957 but no longer in triode connection (it sold as added on stereo model for 55-A in 1958). The early period of Fisher 55A was equipped with 6550 and later period equipped with EL34. 80-AZ was the most successful medium power amplifier in Fisher history, vintage audiophiles likes to call it the Train because it just look like a Train. Many of them had been sold during mid-50's and it operated with a pair of EL37 with 30 watts output based on early blue print of Fisher 70A, this model had been replaced by the Fisher 100 in late 1957 (it also sold as added on stereo model for 80- AZ in 1958). 20-A is the first small power amp of Fisher apply of EL84 tubes at 20 watts output. "CA-40" is the first generation of box shaped integrate power amp but also equipped with variable phono equalizer control at the front panel. 80-C was the second generation of Fisher self-power control preamp to replaced with the early period of Fisher 50-C. It is also one of the most successful preamp series during mid-50. Fisher introduced the upgrade version Fisher 90-C in 1957, it is similar to Fisher 80-C but equipped with filter and presence function. Beside the Amplifier, Fisher also introduced the high-end mono tuner and tuner preamp such as Fisher 80-FM, 80-R, 90 and 90X on the market. Fisher 90X should be the most sensitive and outstanding tuner in the Fisher second generations tuner. In 1956, Fisher produced the American first transistorized hi-fi product – TR-1 phone preamp. This new idea of transistor hi-fi product also completely changed the history of high-fidelity development in the next 50 years as well. In 1958 – 1964, the final generation of Fisher tube stereo hi-fi products. The stereo changes the history of hi-fi, but also save the business of Fisher. The stereo raised the second hi-fi boom in the late 50 and early 60. Fisher introduced the stereo products since 1958. Fisher 300 power amp and 400-C preamp was the first stereo products introduced to the market. The Fisher 300 replaced by Fisher SA-300 in 1960 and Fisher introduced the final version SA-300-B in 1961. No question Fisher SA-300-B is one of the best EL34 stereo amplifiers in American history. Fisher 400-C stereo preamplifier also introduced in 1958, the second generation stereo preamp Fisher 400CX replaced this model in 1960 and Fisher introduced Fisher 400CX-2 in 1961 but Fisher remain the title of preamp as Fisher 400CX at the front panel. The final version Fisher 400CX-3 replaced the Fisher 400CX-2 in at around 1965. For the development of high power stereo amplifier, Fisher introduced Fisher SA-1000 to replace the high power Fisher 55-A and 90-A, Fisher Claim that it can reach 130 watts for both channel output. For small power model Fisher introduced Fisher SA-100 with 25 watts per channel in early 60's. In the early year of stereo, Fisher also provide added on on mono product for stereo. Fisher 125-AX is also the added on stereo model for Fisher 90-A and Fisher 30-A is the added on stereo model for Fisher 20-A. Fisher also introduced Fisher 30-C preamp for Fisher 30-A model as well. For develop of hi-fi radio, Fisher introduced FM-100, FM-200, FM-1000 on the market. As I know some local radio stations in USA are still using Fisher FM-1000 as monitor radio today. Some vintage audiophiles claime that Fisher FM-1000 sounds much better and sensitive but stable than Marantz 10B under A/B test. Beside hi-fi amplifier and radio, Fisher receiver was the most outstanding product during late 50's and 60's, but provided the most outstanding enjoyment to consumer can afford. Fisher first introduced the Fisher TA-500 receiver during late 50's, it was the first generation receiver with AM/FM tuner with preamp and amplifier built all in one gear from Fisher. In the late 50's – 60's, Fisher first introduced the Fisher 600, then Fisher 500, 400, 800 series receiver. Moreover, Fisher also introduced stereo integrate amplifier such as X-100, X-101, X-202 and X-1000 series on the market during stereo years. During the late 50's, the HH Scott was the biggest competitor of Fisher both on receiver market and hi-fi market. Some modern audiophiles and writers believe the McIntosh and Marantz are the King and Queen of vintage hi-fi during 50 – 60's. I still agree that McIntosh is a King of hi-fi in authority sound (However, the emotional, smooth and romance tone quality completely defected by Pilot). In fact, Marantz was just a small business during 50 and 60's if compared to the scale and market share of Scott and Fisher. I'm sorry to say that Fisher 50-C VS Marantz consolette or 1, Fisher 400CX-2 VS Marantz 7C, Fisher SA-300-B VS Marantz 8B and Fisher 125AX VS Marantz 9 also made Marantz products feel shame to sold at such high price but all of them not every come close to sound quality and performance of Fisher gears…! On the other hand, Fisher was the company had great successful hi-fi console market from 40 – 60's, the famous console such as president and Philharmonic was still being seen on the market today. Those high quality hi-fi consoles attacked the most famous persons and the richest men in U.S to became the fans of Fisher such as post U.S. president JFK and famous singer Frank Sinatra. During the mid-60's, Fisher introduced the transistor receiver and amplifier to the market, but still maintain two tube products Fisher 400CX and SA-1000 on the fisher catalog until the very late 60's. When the hi-fi market veered toward mass merchandising in 1969. The American hi-fi companies were heavy competed with Japanese gears on price rather than sound quality. In 1969, Avery Fisher sold his company to Emerson for $31 million. Emerson later sold it to Sanyo Japan. However, Avery Fisher still consulted for both Emerson and Sanyo from late 60 – until 1980's. As a philanthropist, Fisher was very influential and sitting on the boards of the New York Philharmonic, but Chamber Music Society of Lincoln Center and Marlboro Festival. Lincoln Center's Philharmonic Hall was renamed Avery Fisher Hall in 1973 after he donated $10.5 million. Avery Fisher also set up the Avery Fisher Prize and Avery Fisher Career Grants to assist and reward the musicians with outstanding performance in their careers. I never had a chance to talk with Avery Fisher because he was passed away in 1994. My friend Al (Fisher Doctor) told me that Avery Fisher is a very friendly person, as what I knew that many of his clients also became his friends. Beside the development of products, he was also the most outstanding sales person in his company. Traveling on DC-3 jet from east to west during late 50 and 60 and visiting the hi- fi retail shops and his clients (actually his fans). Not surprise the he would pay personal visit to client's home and solved client problem. Avery Fisher's handsome pictures on his catalog also surprise the Fans of Fisher too. Every time when I read the late period Fisher catalog, I still could not believe such a young handsome face was from an old man in hi-fi business at his age of above 50. Music and hi-fi really help people stay young…! I had connection with Fisher's family and from his family members I know that Avery Fisher is a very warm, responsible and lovely father and grandfather. In fact, we also can find the same characteristics in vintage Fisher's hi-fi products today. Avery Fisher was passed away in 26 Feb 1994 at his age of 87, but his spirit of Fisher and outstanding personal taste of music is still carrying on in our daily hi-fi life when we inspirit by Fisher gears. |
Pilotrol 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.126 |
2006-07-12 11:17 |
| [#188] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier The sound characteristic of Fisher 400C is very different than Fisher 400CX-2 or 400CX...! It sounds much forward and harder, but not as open, sweet and details as Fisher 400CX or 400CX-2, espieally at mid-high. However, the 400C has much thicker body and forward tone, very suitable on reproduce metallic, pop or rock music...! |
Pilotrol 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.126 |
2006-07-12 11:19 |
| [#189] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier The sound characeteristic of 400CX and 400CX-2 is very close...! However, 400CX-2 has better details and slightly better extension of high, but the problem is 400CX-2 slightly lack of body and smoothness if compared to 400CX...! It is hard to tell which one is better, but it is very depending on your personal taste...! |
Pilotrol 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.126 |
2006-07-12 11:22 |
| [#190] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier What about Fisher 400CX2 + Leak 12.1? I have auditioned this combo at Gingers' place many times. It is brilliant. On the other hand, I have also auditioned Richard's 400CX old version + 12.1. It is excellent, too. However, I don't have the chance to compare the two. _________________________________________________ One term "brilliant" and the other term "excellent". English expert can you tell which is better :-) |
Ace_Hayashi 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.13 |
2006-07-12 11:36 |
| [#191] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier In your case, you have both 400CX and 400CX2 and 12.1 and are able to compare them. What are your views? -------------------------- Thought I had commented previously. Both are excellent pres and match very well with 12.1. My comment may vary with time as so far I only A/B compare at surface and NOT using the same tubes (12ax7). To drive QuadII, I always prefer 400CX2. To drive 12.1: my personal pick is still 400CX2. 400CX (tighter bass, better details /"refine") 400CX2 (better tonality) It seems that my observation is different from Alan:-) |
rsbn589 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.51 |
2006-07-12 11:46 |
| [#192] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier Dear rsbn589 My assumption is based on early period 400CX with dark red brown orange drop cap VS very late period 400CX-2 with "brown" or "orange" colour orange drop cap. FYI, I discovered some early period 400CX-2 also eqiupped with black colour ornage drop cap. Believe you comment is based on this version VS 400CX equipped with dark red brown colour orange drop cap? I Best regards Alan |
Pilotrol 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.126 |
2006-07-12 12:10 |
| [#193] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier One term "brilliant" and the other term "excellent". English expert can you tell which is better :-) it means both of them are not very 'good'. |
drwkng 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.111 |
2006-07-12 12:18 |
| [#194] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier Dear drwkng Fisher 400CX and 400CX-2 have very similar sound characteristic, but it is difficult to tell which one is better than the other, because different audiophile has different taste of sound and music. For me, I felt the 400CX has better body, slightly forward but slightly smoother and warmer tone and Fisher 400CX-2 has better details but more clear high with slightly thinner body. If you ask me to make a choice from 400CX and 400CX-2, I would prefer the early period 400CX-2 is much suitable for my personal taste. Since it is slightly smoother than later period (silver colour version) 400CX-2 but also with very smooth and sweet tone. For example, Richard (founder of Eico club) votes for Eico ST-84 or HF-85 as his favorite preamp but Tim (founder of HK Tube Audio) votes for 400CX-2. Honestly, it is meaningless to argue on different angle of view and taste of sound, because different audiophiles should have different ears and taste The point is you must have a clear idea for kind of sound and music you are looking for but trust your own ears rather than our words. Best regards Alan |
Pilotrol 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.126 |
2006-07-12 14:10 |
| [#195] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier alan, i don't think you get the meaning of my post. it is not about which premp is better. it is about the meaning of those 2 words,ie 'brilliant' and 'excellent'. :-) while i don't like neither of those preamps but that is personal taste and is not much to argue about. |
drwkng 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.111 |
2006-07-12 14:17 |
| [#196] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier The earlier version of 400CX uses 6 12AX7 and 3 12AT7 while 400CX-2 uses 5 12AX7 and 4 7247 tubes. Please note that good 7247 tubes are harder and harder to get these days. Just my 2 cents ! Regards, Rob. |
Rob_BB 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.34 |
2006-07-12 15:19 |
| [#197] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier My naked 400CX during check up by sifu-R:-)  |
rsbn589 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.51 |
2006-07-12 15:35 |
| [#198] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier Naked 400CX2.  |
rsbn589 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.51 |
2006-07-12 15:38 |
| [#199] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier Dr King is really the king of doctors, not only of hifi but also English. He well understands why I don't have any Fisher preamps and Leak amps. On the other hand, I can't agree more with Alan that personal likings and factors are the most eminent reasons for acquiring toys and it is too arbritary to argue which is better, not to mention which is the best. |
J_L 正式會員 147.xxx.xxx.2 |
2006-07-12 16:01 |
| [#200] Fisher and Pilot 古董同好會 ~ Vintage Amplifier Dear King and J_L What is your favorite preamp, so that I can have better idea of your musical taste? Best regards Alan |
Pilotrol 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.126 |
2006-07-12 16:07 |
