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| [#603] revisiting 2024 My tamp journey started off with the famous el cheap "sonic impact t-amp" which uses 2024 chip. Soon after that I moved to its more robust brother 2020 and then 2022, 2051. The bigger brother all sound reasonably nice depending on system matching. At one point in time I need bigger power to drive my mulitway open baffle speaker so i bit of power will certainly help. For a while, I park my boat on 2051 (a Virtue Two amp) and a Charlize2 (2020, love it for its capacitor less input). Thought my tripath exploration should end... but not quite. Read somwhere that the 2024 has the magic that the other don't. Afterall the big wave of raving about tripath/class-t started off with the sonic impact 2024 amp. I do agree that while listening to the 2020, 2022 and 2051 are enjoyable enough, something is lacking, a kind of tube-warmth is gone, or just an illusion.. so I got a Topping TP10 MK4 off yahoo auction. My speaker now is Bastanis open baffle kit. The top part being two 12" widebanders and one 1" compression horn driver tweeter has 100db sensitivity and woofer is a dipole 18" driven by Hypex UCD 350w under 90hz with an electronic crossover, adjusted to in-phase using test disc. Sound of Topping TP10 MK4: Unbelievable, unbelievable, unbelievable.. I can keep on saying this until I run out of gas. This is the most natural sounding amp I have ever listened to in the last 5 years (want to say 10 years, but let me play with it for a while longer, and let it burn in a bit more). The lack of power and lack of deep bass from 2024 is not my concern as I have a 18" dipole for 90hz and below. All i need is naturalness, warmth, see through transparency, transient response and resolution. Well, the topping tp10 has it all, just 10w or less. So if your speaker system can put it to goo use. Good luck to you. I think the good sound comes from good execution of pcb layout, better inductor shielding and parts selection. I am also using a Kingrex linear psu 12v and a 26 DHT tube preamp. This combo is an extremely natural sounding gig, the caveat is that it only has 10w. Funny that most Topping Tp10 users indeed use it as desktop amp to drive low sensitivity speaker.  |
welborne 正式會員116.xxx.xxx.155 |
2011-06-21 13:30 | |
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| [#604] revisiting 2024 in case one still uses "tube" sound as a benchmark for "naturaless", well then this little sucker is not tube, and does not sound EXACTLY like tube, it does lie somewhere between tube (in fact DHT SE) and class A or A/B SS amp, closer to the former than the latter. But it processes a euphonistic appeal that is equally soothing and pleasant to listen to Provided you match with the right speaker. when you are almost bored and dissapointed by the many harsh and grainy sound from poorly done class-t amp, and are about to write it off your record, this Topping 2024 is surely a wake up call from our prejudice and tube pride. |
welborne 正式會員 112.xxx.xxx.208 |
2011-06-21 17:19 |
| [#605] revisiting 2024 Found a discussion in a Chinese forum on this Topping 2024 amp http://www.tpdz.net/bbs/dispbbs.asp?boardid=4&id=42&page=&star=1 Quote from the author: TA2024的潜力有多大呢？？？ 告诉你，比300B的声音更好。 大伙肯定不信，300B一个管子就是TA2024几十倍，几百倍的价格啊！！！ 其实很正常，这就是科技的力量，300B这样几十年前的老古董声音“最好”才是不正常呢。 要想用TA2024玩出好声音，即必须把它当成300B来玩！！！ 这是个心态问题，TA2024是潜力无限的芯片，但如果不精心伺候就难全部发挥功力。 搞好TA2024的声音，使之达到世界一流的水平无疑是一场革命，因为这样就肯定了“数码技术”在音响领域的统治地位的到来。 数字技术诞生以来，在其它领域都所向披靡，只有在HI-FI领域打了败仗，虽然屡败屡战，但远未成功。 老浦东认为，关键就在于数字音频放大是个“容易受伤的女人”，它极易受干扰的影响，使得数字信号产生“不准确”，这个区别虽然极小，连有些仪器都无法鉴别，但人耳的灵敏度实在惊人，立刻就能听出声音-----不舒服。 以TA2024来说，它的干扰主要来自2个方面： 1.电源干扰。 2.TA2024自身的工频干扰。 TA2024的成名作就是T-AMP，T-AMP放大器由于采用电池供电，去除了上述干扰的第一点，所以一鸣惊人，在国外形成热潮。 但第二点也是很致命的，它影响了TA2024，使得声音无法达到完美。 |
welborne 正式會員 112.xxx.xxx.208 |
2011-06-21 17:39 |
| [#606] revisiting 2024 The sound of this topping is really not the same as my much loved Charlize2 (2020). If you like, it is a sound between 2a3 SE using monoplate (topping 2024) vs 2a3 pushpull (charlize2)  |
welborne 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.190 |
2011-06-21 19:11 |
| [#607] revisiting 2024 Output inductors are made by TOYO brand from Japan exclusively for digital amplification.  |
welborne 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.190 |
2011-06-21 19:12 |
| [#608] revisiting 2024 Hi welborne hing! I need some T-amps for my budget set up:) The speakers are M&D Monitor+, with a sensitivity of 85db only. Consequently I will need at least 100watt per channel -- which one would you recommend? I have read quite a few reviews from 6moons and DIY forums, but somehow I still have doubt with T-amps; it seems their performances are too good to be true! And thus I would like to try out some china-made ones first, just to get a taste of it :) Preferably something came straight out from the producer, no mods necessary (im pretty bad at soldering). Have you tried powering your t-amps with batteries? and how do you like the Virtue amps? |
turbogti 正式會員 168.xxx.xxx.163 |
2011-06-21 20:48 |
| [#609] revisiting 2024 http://search.taobao.com/search?q=t-amp&style=grid&atype=b&filterFineness=2&source=store&isrse=yes&ssid=s5-e&olu=yes&sort=price-desc#J_Filter |
rd3 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.178 |
2011-06-22 00:55 |
| [#610] revisiting 2024 many c hingS PM me and discuss about this Topping 2024 amp. Here is my additional view: No amp is going to be the "best amp" and end-all thing in your set up, and i would not say it is going to replace a nice DHT like my 71a direct coupled amp, or a well made Class-A like that of Nelson Pass/First Watt. It is all a matter of system matching and also a big part of it is your music taste. I am no technical expert on why class-t should or should not sound better than a pure class-a or how the electron move faster in tube than in silicone sea etc. I am just sharing experience from what I hear and compare to live music, afterall it is our ears that we need to cheat with hifi. I am going to compare the Topping TP10 MK4 (could also apply to other 2024 based amp which I have not tried) with my other 2 amps that i have compared in my set up. Your mileage may vary simply because of speaker sensitivity, impedance matching, room acoustic and music taste: 1) Topping TP10 vs ec86-dc-71a direct coupled DHT ---＞ Both fed by a 26 globe tube DHT OTL pre. Topping Tp10 has a 4.7ohm resistor connected at the output to lower its damping a bit to mactch with my 100db/w Bastanis open baffle. Both amps are only serving my top part baffle for 100hz and up. Below 100hz a 18" dipole woofer is actively driven by another class-d Hypes amp. The 71a has a much more extended and textured high frequency, and seems that you can detect just a wee bit more air and nuances happening on violin solo. So for very intimate and simple music like baroque chamber or violin virtuoso, I like the 71a a bit more, but this is it. If you ONLY like to listen to solo violin and nothing else, 71a is the amp for this kind of music. But when the music gets a bit more jammed up and complicated, with many more wind instruments added to the bag and there and perhaps a cello, a double bass or a bunch of viola join in, you lose a lot of meatiness and body in the mid-bass, and this region is rather important in letting you feel the emotion of the other players in the band and not just the violinist. The stregth of 2024 becomes more obvious when you put in some big choir/chorale works consisting a lot of male and female vocalists in the background, the more balance sounding Topping 2024 let you "see the chest" of the singers as if they were in front of you singing. The resolution seems higher than the 71a in this regard because all those space between your left and right speakers are filled up with different voices. With the 71a amp, you don't hear this because a big part of their Chest was missing. Not that they are not there, but just that the 2024 amp show them up more 2) Topping 2024 vs Bottlehead paramount 2a3 monoblock (direct coupled ecc81-dc-2a3c). The Bottlehead 2a3 monoblocks are more balanced than the 71a amp, with perhaps 2watts extra in output does provide a big more drive in the mid-bass. The bottlehead is very nice, very transparent, very airy, not quite in the level of the 71a but is more balanced but not as exotic. If you play violin solo, 71a still gives you that extra nuances from the strings/bows but the 2a3 has a fuller bottom that gives a fuller projection of soundstage. The 2a3 still may sound a bit more resolved than 2024 in giving the ultimate airiness and texture, but it is not a HUGH difference that one will write off the 2024 immediately. And again when you put in the same choir/chorale works recordings like those North Creek chorale from Reference Recordings or the "Black Church (nickname)" from Proprius, you definitley are hearing more singers in between your speakers through the tripath, and you don't have to make much effort to look for them. With the 2a3, you probably hear a bit more than the 71a but still the "bodies" and the "chests" were missing. In both cases above, the Topping 2024 amp with a 4.7ohm resistor added to the output does NOT sound harsh, bright, edgy, thin at all in the 15 CDs that I listened. The 2024 sounds amazingly analogue and warm, and lacking in the slightly overbloated bass you get when those flea power amp can no longer control the speaker driver. 2024 is not perfect but it sounds very good to the right kind of music. I also have a 300B DHT SE amp with permalloy output, vcap cutf coupling caps, Mullard NOS ecc81, all film caps power supply and schottky diodes based filament supply and Treasure 300B-Z meshplate collecting dust next to the Topping 2024. I would need to retune the 300b amp's operation point again to get it close to the topping 2024... |
welborne 正式會員 119.xxx.xxx.75 |
2011-06-22 19:26 |
| [#611] revisiting 2024 yesterday i had some very interesting conversation with a real audio guru about class-t amp. According to him, the small power class-t does sound rather nice but only the small power one, that is. It has something to do with the compact size of the chip, its simpler circuit with the power supply rail, less radiation etc. However, the most important reason is that the smaller chip, out of neccessity, would be pushed harder and sometimes close to full power, and this very act does make the chip switch faster and at this point in time provides its full resolution as much as the chip allows. The higher power class-t chip has more complicated circuits, more problem to deal with and is further away from the power supply and hence won't switch as fast and also would hardly be driven hard to clost to maximum resolution. The analogy is like those digital volume control. Only when it is turned all the way up it is giving full resolution. He also added that the tripath swtiching frequency is quite fast compared to many other class-d, but still perhaps 1000 times slower than it should be if we need them to reproduce enough resolution for 20kHz at 16bit equivalent. A chip needs to switch at xxx-million-hz to do that and there is yet a class-d amp that can swtich that fast. so the class-t is sweet sounding but not ultimately resolved as in Class-A, but whether our human ears can hear all that difference is another interesting issue. |
welborne 正式會員 223.xxx.xxx.205 |
2011-06-22 19:51 |
| [#612] My charlize2 is back in action... What T-Amp is the best buy? TA2020/TA2021/TA2024? |
1398 正式會員 59.xxx.xxx.72 |
2011-08-06 04:10 |
| [#613] TBI Millenia T-Amps have lost its advantage to: http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/3_mini_amps_e.html  |
CKL2 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.171 |
2011-10-03 10:00 |
| [#614] What T-Amp is the best buy? KingRex T20U http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=348&t=801766&p=1  |
gigi2000 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.39 |
2011-10-08 02:49 |
| [#615] What T-Amp is the best buy? Pop Pulse T150 Little Dot T150 Muse DT-50A Topping TP60 which is the best in sound quality? |
ehms 正式會員 42.xxx.xxx.139 |
2012-01-15 14:13 |
| [#616] What T-Amp is the best buy? Pop Pulse T150 - TA2022 Muse DT-50A - TC2000+TP2050 Topping TP60 - TA2022 So, is Muse DT-50A better? |
ehms 正式會員 42.xxx.xxx.139 |
2012-01-15 18:46 |
| [#617] What T-Amp is the best buy? hard to say which is best by wor...they all have different output. I have used products from populse, topping, diyparadise, Virtue Audio, Muse, SMSL... I find that almost all amps that use the same chip tend to sound more similar than different. The change in sound is more audible among different chip set. What speakers are you going to use with them? |
welborne 正式會員 119.xxx.xxx.150 |
2012-01-15 19:13 |
| [#618] What T-Amp is the best buy? Either KEF entry level speakers C7 or Elac BS52 bookshelf speakers I like tube sound and deep bass... |
ehms 正式會員 42.xxx.xxx.139 |
2012-01-15 19:34 |
| [#619] What T-Amp is the best buy? any of the amp that use 2050 chip may suit you. such as Virtue one/two. I still like 2020 the best out of all tripath chip i have tried, but it only has 15w some watts. |
welborne 正式會員 119.xxx.xxx.150 |
2012-01-15 19:36 |
| [#620] What T-Amp is the best buy? Pop Pulse has your positive comments... Topping use two transformers. Is it dual mono design? Muse uses 2050 and has headphone output & remote control... but I have no chance to have a group test of them... |
ehms 正式會員 42.xxx.xxx.139 |
2012-01-15 19:45 |
| [#621] What T-Amp is the best buy? So it is very likely for me to buy Muse because it uses 2050... |
ehms 正式會員 42.xxx.xxx.139 |
2012-01-15 19:49 |
| [#622] What T-Amp is the best buy? 最後買了TOPPING，因為店主話佢質量比MUSE好喎，佢的確係墜手D，而且對環牛係DUAL MONO設計....^^ 今晚初步開聲都吳算薄，有少少蒙，可能煲100小時後會吳同，以前玩過NUFORCE V1、V2都係越煲越好聲，呢部只係十份一價錢，抵玩呢！ |
ehms 正式會員 58.xxx.xxx.79 |
2012-01-18 23:27 |
