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| [#61] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower Jeff Rowland not good? First time I heard of this. AGain spilling rice. No more comments. Pals who find class D that good should definitely buy and why not push the beloved ATC or B&W802 or the ribbon speakers and see if they can stand a 1 Ohm output. Good luck ha ha! |
S6410 正式會員220.xxx.xxx.206 |
2010-01-14 18:08 | |
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| [#62] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower Oh! come on! I never say JR is bad! 不要把自己的幻想，當成事實！ OK? |
JBond 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.127 |
2010-01-14 18:11 |
| [#63] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower Another Hi-End switching amp. with the lowest distortion. http://www.halcro.com/home.php |
長長影子 正式會員 118.xxx.xxx.22 |
2010-01-14 18:14 |
| [#64] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower from stereophile ces 2010 report: """By Brian Damkroger My last stop of the day, and of the show, was the Audio Research room. Dave Gordon showed me their new DS-650 (I'm not sure that the designator was DS) stereo amp and laughed that it was their "Magnepan amp." Yup, I agree. As I discovered when I paired a pair of MG-3.6s with Classé CAM-350s, while any competent 20Wpc amp will drive a pair of MG-3.6s adequately...any top-notch 300–400W amp will actually drive them well. Then Dave casually noted that the 650 was a class-D amp and told me to put my hand on its top. Sure enough, it was cool as a cucumber in spite of having been on and making music for several days. "The entire amp is ours, from the bottom up," Dave noted, "there's nothing standard or off the shelf in there." The only way they were able to get the sound they wanted, or rather, needed for an Audio Research product, they had to start from scratch. The usual disclaimers about show conditions apply, but if the 650 sounds as good at home as it did in Las Vegas, this is an amp to be reckoned with. I believe that Dave said the new amp would go for $7995. """  |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2010-01-14 18:24 |
| [#65] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower halcro logic is class d halcro dm uses switching power but not actually class d the technology is still evolving and getting better and better. the nuforce v3 has come a long way and worth an audition. class a circuit topology has been around for many years. most manufacturers just change the metal case, a few capacitors, modify a bit of the feedback and components and call new design. nothing really new or original under the sun. |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2010-01-14 18:29 |
| [#66] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower the nad M2 is an amp to consider. from stereophile ces 2010 report: """Direct Digital NAD M2 By Erick Lichte NAD is well known for its traditional, high-quality, and relatively affordable integrated amplifiers. At this year's CES, NAD introduced a revolutionary new integrated, the M2 ($5999). NAD's Stephen DeFuria (right) told me that the M2 is what NAD calls a "Direct Digital" amplifier—there is no analog circuitry! First, the M2 offers a wide variety of digital inputs: one S/PDIF, one AES/EBU, two coaxial, and two optical. The amp also offers two pairs of analog inputs (both balanced and single ended), which are converted to a high-resolution digital signal so the rest of the amp's many digital features can be utilized. Second, the output stage is a class-D design using technology developed by English company Diodes-Zetex, which features what NAD calls Direct Digital Feedback. This method of amplifier feedback determines any pulse error and passes this information back to the digital domain section of the amplifier where compensations can be made. This was one of the products at the show that I felt warranted a full write-up and evaluation in Stereophile—when I told the well-known class-D skeptic John Atkinson about the M2, he explained that not only did he agree but that his enthusiastic review will appear in the March issue of the magazine. """  |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2010-01-14 18:33 |
| [#67] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpowe 問題係 JR 像 Goldmund 這個 case!  |
epic 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.55 |
2010-01-14 20:27 |
| [#68] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpowe entirely different goldmund modded pioneer and repackage with better metal case, power supply and some electronic components. jr used ice power but put in its own designed modules. whether he has mastered the class d technology like nuforce and others is subject to debate. |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2010-01-15 10:05 |
| [#69] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower audio research never produced any sensible sounding solid state amps! NAD, Halcro ....no any interests.... With similar price tags, would rather go for a Spectral or Krell. |
S6410 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.106 |
2010-01-15 11:06 |
| [#70] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower old audio research is very different from the new with sonus faber become new shareholder. u have not heard the new nad m2 yet as it is not yet in the market. please dont make judgment base on assumptions. the old spectral and krell are good. new ones really overpriced for the sonic quality. |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2010-01-15 11:31 |
| [#71] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower JR 一早就應該轉返 Class AB 啦！我幾年前係到講過肯定佢用左 ICEPower 之後生意一定跌到仆街...... 唔係話 Class D 唔好聲，好聲哩樣野好主觀，就算係 Class A 都唔同廠唔同聲，亦有大把某某 Class AB 既機好聲過某某 Class A，所以我唔會理會佢乜野 Class，只會聽聲收貨，問題係所有人都知 ICEPower 值幾多錢，JR 個殼就算整到幾靚都冇可能賣到天價掛(當然 JR die hard fans 或勁有錢既人可能唔會介意)，但一般平民伯姓理所當然會同你計成本吧，三幾千成本你換個靚殼加對幾百蚊既牛仔調下音都冇可能賣到十萬八萬掛？！就算大把錢既人都怕買左比朋友笑水魚啦..... 反而轉返傳統 Class AB，比著我同你打開個殼見到入面八成位置都裝滿材料成百碰重，又唔怕買完第二日上 internet 睇到原來同部幾千蚊既 AV amp 或台記土炮一樣料，咁比十萬八萬都比得條氣順 d 啦！ 最後修改時間: 2010-01-16 01:03:26 |
Tea 正式會員 61.xxx.xxx.73 |
2010-01-16 00:56 |
| [#72] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower 我撐你，我都是JR死硬派，你的見解都幾客觀，消費者當然所付出的金錢能夠買到物超所值的東西(best buy)！最低限度在二手價都會賣高啲價位啦.....下次換機都唔駛保那麼多錢！真係想一注清袋，以後唔駛玩.... 最後修改時間: 2010-01-16 17:38:15 |
新仔 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.14 |
2010-01-16 17:34 |
| [#73] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower jr-500,我記得年半前去友情聽過一次,喇叭係用dynaudio,聲吾錯,推得對c1頭頭是道,但價位超過咗個人budget,所以冇買 |
stephenchow2k 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.230 |
2010-01-16 17:42 |
| [#74] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower 從一般消費者嘰角度係咁冇錯,俾錢嘰就係大爺,一睇入面冇乜料到,我覺得唔值錢就唔值錢… 我由此至終唔會認同用不計成本只為performance嘰用料黎設計先至係hi-end機種, 我認為performance到一定層次先能夠稱得上係Hi-end… 如果以一個R&D designer嘰角度,我認為職責在於如果設計一個可以大量生產嘰系統而又可以滿足Hi-end quality嘰需求,其中一個重點係 “如何去量產”, 如何將手上嘰零件發揮最佳嘰表現,實際上最佳嘰表現只限於你同供應廠所定規格內量產能夠達到嘰合理水平… 當我自己DIY Hi-end機,我會要求零件供應商俾我嘰Engineering samples, e.g. OP-AMPs或Transistors都要係同一片WAFER入面切出黎保証特性都係MATCHING,我仲要挑失真/noise都係lower limit又或者低於lower limit,每一粒KEY IC都要有獨立TEST REPORT做証明, 廠商為左你要做實驗佢又要做你生意一定可以support你嘰要求,但係你要用咁嘰方法量產, It’s impossible. 你要design出黎performance要好,你只能同佢傾俾多D錢去提高規格,佢西左出黎果D零件咪散貨出去出面俾一細廠又或者高價賣俾玩家囉,cost佢絶對唔會同你吸收… 唔好以為Hi-End廠商有議價能力,係人都知IC果D野要量大cost先會低,量大仲可以低好多非常之多,有時一堆廠商一齊用嘰IC唔代表果種IC特別好,同行唔同公司好多時其實都係坐埋同一條船去搭夠IC產量黎壓cost, 玩Hi-End嘰人有幾多? Hi-End數量點都冇可能多,同一般消費性產品比係蚊脾同牛脾,同一粒IC做最cheap嘰CD機一年賣一萬部好未? Hi-End一年賣唔賣到100部? 硬係要因為少少quality去用量少嘰IC, 好呀, 差價係天文數字… 我唔係話好多時因為cost會放棄quality,只係一般人可以了解嘰層面好表面, Hi-End quality當然有區別喇,但唔好以為Hi-End等如天下無敵,Hi-End嘰機種, OK, 120dB DR好未, 俾儀器check check出下report問題就算無出晒黎至少儀器都要夠quality先可以做測試, 可以話儀器比Hi-End機貴咁多,又比較精密穏定性一定比較好? 我有專登當面問某家Audio公認儀器廠商嘰R&D用邊顆正ADC/DAC可以咁高quality, 訊號交連嘰變壓器係唔係用最高grade可以咁低失真又咁高CMRR, 我得到嘰答案竟然係兩種都用最一般常用到嘰規格冇特別挑選(但有用後期電路校正), 差別只在於設計上嘰 “Know-how”, e.g. ADC/DAC同交疊等電路方法, 變壓器失真用負抗電路抵消,etc, 我有search埋佢地嘰專利, 當然仲有好多不為人知嘰方法… 另一個example,只係比喻example, 數碼音控好D定類比音控好D!? 作為技術研究,有人專注研究數碼音控, 亦有D人專注研究最好嘰類比音控入面最精密嘰電阻, 你會以為Hi-End真係會花好多effort去同時研究喱兩樣技術果D人? 大部份Hi-End廠商極其量只算係 “運用”喱兩種技術嘰人, 你認為佢地真係能夠同時深度了解兩樣技術? OK, Hi-Fi廠A用數碼音控, Hi-Fi廠B用類比音控, 到時候巿場對類比音控接受到比較高, 所以好多Hi-Fi廠都用類比音控!? 咁Hi-End廠呢? 如果你係Hi-End廠商要你設計, 你會點設計? 搵最Hi grade嘰類比音控黎做音響設計? 因為Hi-End不計成本要最高quality? 如果我係Hi-End廠商, 我會選擇同時採用同grade嘰數位音控同埋類比音控, 因為量大 cost低, 但設計上我會容合兩種嘰優點, 兩種音控響唔同嘰訊號衰減我都會做測試,然後我同時將兩種嘰e.g. noise, distortion嘰curves合埋一齊睇去決定唔同音量設定下同時改變兩組settings去得出所用電阻最低嘰intrinsic/thermal noise, distortion,etc表現去達到低noise又不失bit resolution嘰效果,cost係多左D但又做出outstanding quality... Know-how係非常值錢,唔好以為幾粒所謂嘰平電容就話到一文不值,要鬧一件產品好容易,特別係討論區,XXX冇用到最high grade電容,YYY冇用乜乜設計, 乜都好耳聽為憑實岩晒架, 主觀喜好冇野好講, 但我認為客觀準則有規格有依據, 但從另一個角度同思維去探討, 真正識得欣賞一件設計嘰人究竟有幾多!? |
長長影子 正式會員 118.xxx.xxx.238 |
2010-01-17 01:20 |
| [#75] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower 本人淺見,不可以單看機內用料成本來衡量一件產品的價值, 好似Audio Nxxx M10賣幾十萬一部前級,都只係用個鐵皮殼, 一樣有人去追求,只要買的人認為可以接受,聽得開心便可以, 認為不值的人,亦可以看也不看一笑置之,是各人的自由及不同 的價值觀而已. 但不要忘記,一件產品的價值,通常最大的成本不是本身的原 料或零件,而是產品設計開發/商譽/相對生產成本等... 產品設計開發...不計算抄襲,試想要投入多少時間/金錢/ 工程師/無數的試驗等. 商譽...一個品牌不單單是一個名字,其背後的商譽要得到 市場的認同,亦要投入大量金錢來建立,為甚麼大部份人都 會取向購買較有牌子的產品,原因是認為這些牌子性能較好 品質較有保證,而這些"品質"同"信譽"就是企業在品質控制 上做功夫,在售後支援及保養服務,及對客人的承諾等. (就正如買電容邊隻牌子好,買CD光頭邊個牌子好一樣.) 相對生產成本...例如現時手提電話較便宜的,一千幾百都可以 買倒,為其麼可以賣得這麼平,是因為數以十萬計的大量生產, 如這個電話只是生產100個的話,便可能要賣十萬一個了!! 所以產量相對少很多的hi-end產品,其相對生產成本會高很多. 以上淺見如有不足或錯誤,請見諒! |
ericpang 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.7 |
2010-01-18 02:22 |
| [#76] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower """好似Audio Nxxx M10賣幾十萬一部前級,都只係用個鐵皮殼, 一樣有人去追求,只要買的人認為可以接受,聽得開心便可以, 認為不值的人,亦可以看也不看一笑置之,是各人的自由及不同 的價值觀而已.""" agree. some just like audio jewelry """一件產品的價值,通常最大的成本不是本身的原 料或零件,而是產品設計開發/商譽/相對生產成本等...""" true to the dot. van gogh paintings worth heaps but the paint and materials used cost minimal. same for picasso, monet ..... |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2010-01-18 07:15 |
| [#77] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower?? D類如好過AB類，點解Jeff Rowland 又會番轉頭用番AB類呢？莫非D類唔得??咁攪笑?? |
Jerryck 正式會員 58.xxx.xxx.96 |
2010-08-09 13:10 |
| [#78] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower JR has already said clearly icepower only good for mid end (= mid money). They want to make high end (high money)...so icepower must go...sorry for those spent 100Kplus for a 500 amp... 最後修改時間: 2010-08-09 18:02:20 |
syim888 正式會員 121.xxx.xxx.221 |
2010-08-09 18:01 |
| [#79] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower """They want to make high end (high money)"""??? to me they failed with lack of technology in making good class d amp to better nuforce or halcro, so out of this market is natural. of course they can say anything to save face. even a cheapo tripath class t amp can sound very good but due to lack of power cannot demand high price. |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2010-08-09 22:11 |
| [#80] New Jeff Rowland amps will not use ICEpower Whether class D can produce good sound, I don't want to argue, everybody's taste is different, the definition of good sound is also different. What I want to share is I have ARC tube amp, ML class A amp but I also love my nuforce class D very much. Class D amp is very system specific. It could produce very good sound in one system but also could produce very shit sound in another. I owned nuforce V1, V2, and V3. The nuforce guys really put effort in research work. V3 is a lot better than V1. In my limited experience, class D nuforce amp is the best amp I heard driving my Hales T5 speakers (it is 4 ohm floorstanding speaker with NO bass port design). 最後修改時間: 2010-08-10 13:04:56 |
ccheung 正式會員 71.xxx.xxx.78 |
2010-08-10 13:01 |
