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[#21] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
is LP12 a good TT? large number of LP12 sold in the past 40 years, it is very unlikely a bad product can last that long and sold for such large volume.

are there any better choices? there are always better choices, depends on how much u wish to spend. And of course how do u like ur music sounds. If u like quiet, clean, 3D, powerful and detailed sound, there are hundreds of TTs in the market do better than LP12(in fact CD could do better at a lower cost if u want all these characters).

If u like juicy and full-bodied sound, it is hard to overlook LP12.

LP12's design maybe simple,(looks like a toy when compares to modern TT from clearaudio or transrotor, kuzma ....etc just to name a few), but is effective enough for me to enjoy music. And it looks good too(with the right plinth) :)

However, I am not so fond of the new SE version, IMHO, HKD1xxxxx for such design is absolutely robbery.


rover901
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202.xxx.xxx.109
2010-07-22 09:53
[#22] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
there are always hundreds of Mercedes Benz c-class, e-class...etc selling on 28car.com, this doesn't mean MB makes bad cars.

I have never seen a Pro-ject Essential TT selling in the R33 2nd hand market, that doesn't mean this is the best TT in the universe.

最後修改時間: 2010-07-22 10:03:30
rover901
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202.xxx.xxx.109
2010-07-22 10:00
[#23] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
of course it is. any sifu would have mentioned that when quoting turntables. so whats your point of quoting a list of names and without naming which areas better than linn lp12? and hows the new lp12 selling now? there are lots of old ones available in the market for sale. and why the owners are selling LP12 if it is so good?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

These are reviews done by various hifi magazines in the last 30 years. LP12 is/ was always a benchmark to compare with the new comers in the same fideity level.

In the good old days without internet, I used to buy about 10 hifi magazines for reading including the pocket size TAS, Sterophile, hifi news, hifi answers and the local one etc.. In most reviews, the reviewers always concluded that the new comers were better than LP12 in many aspects but somehow these better products are no longer existed except Linn. You can start your research from internet should you need more information (if available) or conversely to buy the old mag from ebay for your necessary reference. The writings by the famous reviewers in the old days of TAS/ hifi news/ stereophile are valuable and could do you more good than harm.

You should do more research on LP12 and see why people's selling or regret their decisions to sell. One major thing is that although the basic design of LP12 has remained the same since its birth and claimed to be upgradable, unfortunately some minor details cannot be upgraded. By accumulating these minor details with minor improvements, the new LP12 is sounding better than the old one with all upgrades available by Linn.

Furthermore if you do not own any LP12 in your hifi journey, it is impossible and viable to tell you how charm the product is. Such charm could not be read by internet searching. Tough.

最後修改時間: 2010-07-22 10:13:57
mda
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59.xxx.xxx.66
2010-07-22 10:02
[#24] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
LP 12都賣左咁內,一定有佢實力及價值,至於你話鐘唔鐘意LP 12.............就等於你愛豬扒我愛美女.哈哈
doublesam
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218.xxx.xxx.249
2010-07-22 10:37
[#25] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
我用左lp12都快一年, 到現在都很滿意...
monami
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218.xxx.xxx.101
2010-07-22 10:47
[#26] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
咸魚青菜各有所好, 那些不喜愛LP12無論我地怎講, 他們也不會buy, 但相反我地這些LP12 fans, 就算d人點講, 我地都鐘情变, 會轉軑的, 呢d係好主觀嘅!
dragonball911
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58.xxx.xxx.99
2010-07-22 11:28
[#27] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
其实我玩左4年,想轉幾次,最後唔捨得。
rover901
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202.xxx.xxx.109
2010-07-22 11:40
[#28] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
lots of mercedez in 2nd hand market is because owners do not want to foot escalating repair bills.

my point was trying to show numbers sold does not equate to good products.

here we are talking about the 最好 not just 好.

the 最好 is the one and only one. are there other products surpass it? if so it is not the 最好.
cpu8088
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115.xxx.xxx.214
2010-07-22 17:45
[#29] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
"""You should do more research on LP12 and see why people's selling or regret their decisions to sell. One major thing is that although the basic design of LP12 has remained the same since its birth and claimed to be upgradable, unfortunately some minor details cannot be upgraded."""

any upgrade will mean a fault in previous design and admission of mistakes.

"""By accumulating these minor details with minor improvements, the new LP12 is sounding better than the old one with all upgrades available by Linn."""

advertising always claim that. it will never say new model worse than old. another fault admission. lol

cpu8088
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115.xxx.xxx.214
2010-07-22 17:50
[#30] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
what makes u think reviewers are reliable? their ears not equivalent to mine and my taste of music.

i dont buy and seldom read magazines except visit their websites for photos and check any innovative ideas.
cpu8088
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115.xxx.xxx.214
2010-07-22 17:54
[#31] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
我地唔係講緊"他心中最好"嗎? 冇人有資格講人家的心中最好吧!
dragonball911
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58.xxx.xxx.99
2010-07-22 19:44
[#32] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
>>>>any upgrade will mean a fault in previous design and admission of mistakes.

this is logical. and is quite applicable on LP12 :P

but the "faulty old design" is not necessarily sounds less attractive than the new one, quite a few LP12 users hate the new sound(SE version) which is more "accurate", "clean", "neutral" according to some.....but if I want these I will get a Transrotor/Clearaudio/acoustic signature.....etc
rover901
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112.xxx.xxx.217
2010-07-22 20:10
[#33] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
余師傅心痛地說以前HIFI 廠家大多老實,產品大都是一分錢一分貨!但現在動輒+多廿萬,但竟然是八分錢一分貨.......

而XERXES 和 LP12有三+多年曆史,不斷更生,價錢大部份人可承担,是一分錢三分貨.......

為何無XERXES用家??
cheunggerger
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121.xxx.xxx.239
2010-07-22 20:13
[#34] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
Rega should be one of a few 有良心廠家. Roy Gandy has no intention to jump on the bandwagon of setting a factory in China. Humbly made in South End of England by hand. Their turntable should be one of the legend in the industry. But don't know how it compares with the Linn or Roksan.

myers1
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219.xxx.xxx.16
2010-07-22 20:38
[#35] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
"""我地唔係講緊"他心中最好"嗎? 冇人有資格講人家的心中最好吧!"""

he is entitled to his opinion. same as ours we have our own opinion. otherwise the world will be too boring.

same situation as with actors/actresses u can vote your favourites as the best but not necessarily agree with general public.

or in case of voting your government the one who got majority votes may not be the best.

cpu8088
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115.xxx.xxx.214
2010-07-22 21:38
[#36] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
"Furthermore if you do not own any LP12 in your hifi journey, it is impossible and viable to tell you how charm the product is. Such charm could not be read by internet searching. Tough."

I stand by my comment above.

It is in fact BS if someone keeps debating whether the LP12 is the good sounding or not without having owned the product AND he does not trust any reviews in the magazines (same principle could be applied to internet searching) due to reliability and adverising issues.

It is pointness to carry on the discussion if someone is so self-centred or equal to "frog in the well" and no expereince whatsoever. He just argues for the sake of it.


最後修改時間: 2010-07-22 22:25:23
mda
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112.xxx.xxx.29
2010-07-22 22:18
[#37] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
But don't know how it compares with the Linn or Roksan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I thought the top Rega (P9??) was about in the same price level with the basic LP12 + Akito at some stage. Of course not to compare with the full set of LP12SE.

最後修改時間: 2010-07-22 22:23:10
mda
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112.xxx.xxx.29
2010-07-22 22:22
[#38] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
"""It is in fact BS if someone keeps debating whether the LP12 is the good sounding or not without having owned the product AND he does not trust any reviews in the magazines"""

one does not need to own certain items to express an opinion. there are many ways to do it. like borrow from friends, home visits of friends who own the item, retailers, shows, internet forums collecting users comments.

"""in fact BS""" is a bold statement without substance. what is the fact? measurable?

good sounding or not is subjective. how music moves people is very individual. u cannot use yourself to be the standard by which to make judgment.

"""It is pointness to carry on the discussion...."""

then why you are here? your scope is so limited. perhaps it is time for u to wake up and look at things from a different angle.



最後修改時間: 2010-07-23 08:27:21
cpu8088
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115.xxx.xxx.214
2010-07-23 08:25
[#39] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
"""he does not trust any reviews in the magazines """

lol have u read salvatore comments on review the reviewers:

""THE (SECRET) RULES OF 'AUDIO REVIEWING'

1. Never anger any protected audio industry entity, such as:

A. An important current, or potential, advertiser; including manufacturers, distributors or retailers, or...

B. Any other audio establishment which has a "personal relationship" with you.

2. Delay acknowledging any serious problems with a "protected" component until you give another rave review to the "updated" model which replaces it and "corrects" the problems.

3. Avoid making any direct comparisons with a "protected" component, but if you have to, follow these "Solutions":

A. Compare the component only to older and/or obsolete models, especially from the same manufacturer. (See Rule #2 above).

B. If Solution "A" is not possible, compare the component to "competitors" costing either MUCH more or MUCH less.

C. If both Solutions "A" or "B" are not possible, "neglect" to mention the actual names and model numbers of the rival components that you compare it to in the review.

D. If Solutions "A", "B" or "C" are all not feasible, and you must compare the model to a current, similarly priced (and "protected") competitor that you must name, then you must be:

1. As ambiguous as possible, and you must also...
2. Never describe any problem as "serious" (See Rule #3.E)
3. Never proclaim one model to be clearly superior to the other(s). In short...
4. Both (or all) of the components must be seen as equally desirable and of similar value.

E. Problems or imperfections that aren't obvious (such as no bass below 40 Hz with small speakers), may be described as "serious" (easy to hear) only when using Solutions "A", "B" or "C".

However, any problems described when using Solution "D" must always be "subtle" and "difficult to hear", or even described as an "advancement" if possible.

4. You must never inform readers if an "audiophile" accessory or tweak is also available in a generic form at a fraction of the price that the "protected" manufacturer is charging (Blue Tac and RFI rings etc.).

5. Any and all "transactions" between you and any of the parties mentioned in Rule #1 must always be kept strictly Confidential. Accordingly...

A. You must never divulge the actual price, if any, you paid to "purchase" your reference components or accessories, or any extra costs you paid, if any, to have those same components updated, modified, repaired, replaced etc.

B. You must never divulge any "gifts", "favors" or "perks" that you received from the "protected" audio entities, or those with whom you have a "personal relationship".

6. You must never mention the actual costs, even at retail prices, of the parts that are used to manufacture the component.

7. Further to Rules #4 & #6, you must never state, or even imply, that any component or accessory is "over-priced".

8. The more corrupt your magazine is, the more you shall proclaim your honesty.

9. Magazines shall never divulge the actual percentage of their advertising revenues to their total revenues.

10. OVERRIDE CLAUSE- Some of the preceding rules (#1, #2 & #3) may be ignored only in the event of either a serious (and apparently indefinite) breach of the "personal relationship" between the audio company and reviewer/magazine, and/or the termination, or non-payment, of their advertising contract.""
cpu8088
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115.xxx.xxx.214
2010-07-23 08:30
[#40] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12.....    
lol have u read salvatore comments on review the reviewers:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Salvatore is / was the hifi shop owner who could come across with many hifi gears. As he owns a shop which implies that he has more than one good demonstration room to play with hifi. As he is in the hifi business, he has connection and sources to know the secret of the trade including design. Sum up, he is in a good position and has solid ground to support his view without needing to read the hifi mag or to trust any reviewer.

Are you having the same background?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

there are many ways to do it. like borrow from friends, home visits of friends who own the item, retailers, shows, internet forums collecting users comments.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

If you do not own the equipment, you are just a walk-by passenger. It is interesting that you would rather trust the forum who may not even owned the equipment, not having a decent listening room, not having a reference quality equipment or even just abstracts the comments from the magazines for his own.

Many hi-fi reviewers have got lots of stools for measurement and descent experience to live with exotic stuffs and good music knowledge too.

Famous reviewers have also got thier brandnames / goodwill to treasure. Why people included many professional and wealthy people who are no fool either would trust Martin Colloms/ Pearson/ Atkinson's comment instead of Passengers ABC somewhere.

BTW, have you ever heard of LP12 in your system st your home even borrowing it from your friend(s) or retailer(s)?

What is your ground to comment on LP12? Based on "borrowing from friends, home visits of friends who own the item, retailers, shows, internet forums collecting users comments"?


最後修改時間: 2010-07-23 09:12:12
mda
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59.xxx.xxx.66
2010-07-23 09:09
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