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| [#41] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... if u know salvatore u will know his heated dialog with michael framer resulted framer using bad language. also you will have known salvatore's view on stereophile and other magazines. if you have been to audio asylum u will notice how many disagree with john atkinson and other reviewers of different magazines. """Many hi-fi reviewers have got lots of stools for measurement and descent experience to live with exotic stuffs and good music knowledge too.""" i take it u mean tools not stools. yep and many of the reviews are craps. if u follow those you are being conned and not an intelligent consumer. measurements can be misleading as the methods used can vary. for example just where to place the microphone to pick up sound can have different results. not to mention how to intepret the results. """famous reviewers have also got thier brandnames / goodwill to treasure. Why people included many professional and wealthy people who are no fool either would trust Martin Colloms/ Pearson/ Atkinson's comment instead of Passengers ABC somewhere.""" famous reviewers will only review those products they consider worth reviewing. u have to read between the lines to know what they are talking about. what salvatore said was very true. just read those rules again. who are those professional and wealthy people? can u name a few? or u are just making assumptions? i happen to know a few professionals and wealthy people who shuns magazines and reviewers too. """BTW, have you ever heard of LP12 in your system st your home even borrowing it from your friend(s) or retailer(s)? """ been there done that. no hype to me at all. thats why i cannot see the cult following LP12 while there are many other turntables can do the same job and even better. """What is your ground to comment on LP12? Based on "borrowing from friends, home visits of friends who own the item, retailers, shows, internet forums collecting users comments"?""" funny u have to say that. by being a r33 member can participate in this forum. similarly asking u the same question of how many models or upgrades of LP12 have you used to comment here and doing pointless discussions with me? i dont really care. as with many things in life there are lovers and haters. u can continue to love your LP12 and stick with it while i can progress and use others. |
cpu8088 正式會員115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2010-07-23 15:16 | |
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| [#42] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... it is a faulty logic assuming a hifi shop owner has connection and sources to know the secret of the trade including design. one can open up the case and see whats inside, with a bit of electronic knowledge, price of components etc can learn a bit about the secrets of trade and design. shop owners are out to make a profit, he is not running a charity show to benefit consumers. all the products are good for sale. similarly reviewers are not involved in doing charity. they write for magazines or websites with a view to facilitate sales of products. money comes in to a magazine by advertising and the reviewers indirectly remunerated from those money from manufacturers. by being not impartial how can one trust reviewers? on the other hand users comments can be more reliable if u have done your research right and collect a good sample size. 最後修改時間: 2010-07-23 16:02:59 |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2010-07-23 15:59 |
| [#43] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... """BTW, have you ever heard of LP12 in your system st your home even borrowing it from your friend(s) or retailer(s)? """ been there done that. no hype to me at all. thats why i cannot see the cult following LP12 while there are many other turntables can do the same job and even bet ＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞ Just wonder as a passenger, assume that you have taken your opportunity to listen THE Linn in your own place, in terms of tuning how much knowledge do you know regarding LP12. Did your Friend let you to mess around his toy? On the other hand, a cult which can last for 40 years is simply magic. ＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞ """who are those professional and wealthy people? can u name a few? or u are just making assumptions? i happen to know a few professionals and wealthy people who shuns magazines and reviewers too""" ＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞ "who are those professional and wealthy people? can u name a few?" There is pointless to name Mr. ABC who you do not know but you cannot question their intellegence if they enjoy reading the magazines. There is no denying that many people have read and follow the old TAS etc. Ask Editor Chan, Leo Fung etc. who are the famous person you know or other experience hifi users (i.e. those started in 70s and 80s), they will tell you the same. People could disagree with reviewers (Atkinson, Colloms, Gold, Pearson etc.) but no one would doubt with their status and reputation in hifi world. Even many people have benefited alot from Editor Chan's preaching in late 80s and early 90s. ASK you friends whether they have ever benefit by reading the hifi mag. whether they have followed the advise to buy the audiophile CD/LP. Whether they have followed the TAS list to buy the recommended LPs? When you see the list of salvatore's recording, there are some similarities between his and TAS, I bet he has used TAS as a reference because the list has long been there. ＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞ """u can continue to love your LP12 and stick with it while i can progress and use others.""" ＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞ Yes I am going to stick with it and hope you are really progress and use others, not "look" at them or "read" them elsewhere. ＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞ """on the other hand users comments can be more reliable if u have done your research right and collect a good sample size.""" ＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞ Oh it means you are commenting LP12 based on statistics, summarised them and use it as the basis of your opinion . Thanks but no thanks. ＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞ I have dragged on with you AGAIN for a while and I am not going to response anymore. Cheers. 最後修改時間: 2010-07-23 18:01:53 |
mda 正式會員 59.xxx.xxx.66 |
2010-07-23 17:47 |
| [#44] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... great to know that u are an advocate of TAS and believe their golden ears reviewers are your references. first u tried to scare me with professionals and rich peoploe then u quoted some TAS stereophile reviewers, and then get Mr Leo Fung to assert your points. cant u do better than that? so far in this thread u have not shown why and how LP12 is good or as the title said the best. ask yourself this question: is it without LP12 u cannot get good music? if so then it is the best. if not then there are substitutes and not the best. |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2010-07-23 19:41 |
| [#45] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... """Ask Editor Chan, Leo Fung etc. who are the famous person you know or other experience hifi users """ no disrespect but i dont know those famous names. expensive hifi are mainly audio jewelry. now and then here in r33 we have members hear saying they heard an expensive system and not like the sound. what do u say to that? |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2010-07-23 19:44 |
| [#46] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... """ASK you friends whether they have ever benefit by reading the hifi mag. whether they have followed the advise to buy the audiophile CD/LP. Whether they have followed the TAS list to buy the recommended LPs? When you see the list of salvatore's recording, there are some similarities between his and TAS, I bet he has used TAS as a reference because the list has long been there.""" is this a joke? those buying TAS can be beginners or the blind followers, or someone just like reading magazines to get ideas. it is an oblique form of advertising new products. also recommended LPs just show software not hardware. salvatore's list by no means exhaustive and so are others. we are here talking about LP12 not software. |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2010-07-23 19:56 |
| [#47] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... cpu8088, I wonder if you have finished your dissertation yet. I think you must have gathered enough materials from various R33 threads through your "researching" method by arguing and exploiting. Sometimes I enjoy but mostly am bored with your "in your face" attitude. Just wonder.......... |
chinaimamn 正式會員 86.xxx.xxx.183 |
2010-07-23 20:33 |
| [#48] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... I want to give one more post:- """Ask Editor Chan, Leo Fung etc. who are the famous person you know or other experience hifi users """ "no disrespect but i dont know those famous names." OMG. Please say that early and I would not spend time to write anything. Hate to say that but you could either be a rookie in Hifi or not even a hifi yau at all. So why should I spend time to discuss with a non-hifi yau who claimed LP12 is just so-so sounding. It is hard to believe any Chinese hi fi yau in Asia does not know Editor Chan (YK Chan) and Leo Fung. Damn it. Should you not know them, you may never heard of the following famous names except salvatore:- H. Pearson, L. Archibald, A.H. Cordesman, J.G. Holt, Martin Colloms, Alvin Gold, Paul Messanger, Paul Miller, Keith Howards and Ken Kessler ＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞ "also recommended LPs just show software not hardware. salvatore's list by no means exhaustive and so are others. we are here talking about LP12 not software." We talked LP12 first and subsequently to discuss the creditability of hifi mag and the reviewers which you claimed it is more useful to do your own "statistics" from various forum. ＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞ OK, times-up, pens down, no more. 最後修改時間: 2010-07-23 20:45:35 |
mda 正式會員 112.xxx.xxx.29 |
2010-07-23 20:42 |
| [#49] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... another one got shot down and disappear :-) whats the use of quoting magazine reviewers name to add weight to arguments? gordon holt is dead now and may be some too. they wont be able to come here to voice their opinions. |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2010-07-23 23:31 |
| [#50] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... another one got shot down and disappear :-) ＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞ Should you feel and sleep better with such unfound conclusion, perfect. However you do not need to stress that Mr. Holt has already passed away and not able to voice his opinions. Your comments like this indicated that you are simply NO class. With due respect, he and other reviewers have done more than enough for the hifi industry. Without them, even Mr. Statistics is not able to observe so many information from various sources and treated himself like Mr. knowhow. 最後修改時間: 2010-07-24 00:17:57 |
mda 正式會員 112.xxx.xxx.29 |
2010-07-24 00:09 |
| [#51] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... Dear mda, You wrote **OMG. Please say that early and I would not spend time to write anything.** Very sorry to see than, but you know it to late. Most R33 member know the CPU for a long time, no one will spend any time for him. I feel very sorry to you. Ray 最後修改時間: 2010-07-24 05:06:43 |
ozrayyau 正式會員 122.xxx.xxx.194 |
2010-07-24 05:05 |
| [#52] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... ＞Most R33 member know the CPU for a long time, no one will spend any time for him. His posts are very entertaining though. Ditto BennyK and that IBM something |
permendur 正式會員 74.xxx.xxx.144 |
2010-07-24 08:03 |
| [#53] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... """he and other reviewers have done more than enough for the hifi industry.""" do u know why stereophile stopped reviewing cables? yes no dispute about their contributions to the hifi industry. but there are lots of snake oil products being promoted with rave reviews and conned consumers hard earned money. also why audiophiles like to "upgrade" or change their gear? havent some of them already read reviews and done research and audition before making the purchase decision? is there some good way to avoid or minimize error in judgment? are all newer series better than the old? are those old LP12 after so many years of burn in run smoother and more accurate than a new LP12? |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2010-07-24 08:24 |
| [#54] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... """Sometimes I enjoy but mostly am bored with your "in your face" attitude. """ thanks for your sometimes. i am very down to earth and unable to write like a reviewer in form of poems describing sound nor asking u to read between my lines guessing a lot. cheers |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2010-07-24 08:26 |
| [#55] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... Very sorry to see than, but you know it to late. Most R33 member know the CPU for a long time, no one will spend any time for him. ＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞＞ Better late than never. But it proves that I am not a die hard R33 member @-@ Thanks. |
mda 正式會員 112.xxx.xxx.29 |
2010-07-24 10:42 |
| [#56] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... """no one will spend any time for him.""" some scary cats just cannot continue to back up their claims and will automatically disappear. this is normal in other forums not only in r33 forum. |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2010-07-24 15:19 |
| [#57] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... cpu8088, Fair enough and that's more like it:very sensible answer with very "down to earth" attitude. I like to have a discussion, not a confrontation which I have enough at work. |
chinaimamn 正式會員 86.xxx.xxx.183 |
2010-07-24 15:42 |
| [#58] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... just response to some over reacted r33 members here. throughout this thread i did not say bad words about LP12 but some took the view that I claimed LP12 was no good. I simply challenged the meaning of "the best" and raised the question if there is (are) better substitute(s) |
cpu8088 正式會員 115.xxx.xxx.214 |
2010-07-24 16:54 |
| [#59] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... In which case shall we just narrow the whole thing down back to your "challenge" and your proposed "better substitute(s)". I have used about 20 turntables in the past and have owned 5 different cong. LP12 at one time. You are right there are "MUCH" better decks out there and I can second that but they are also "LESS" at the same time. Contradiction or what? I thought you know the answer? Come on! |
chinaimamn 正式會員 86.xxx.xxx.183 |
2010-07-24 18:05 |
| [#60] 余師傅說他心中最好的LP 盤---Roksan Xerxes 和 Linn LP12..... In my humble opinion, the best turntable does not exist. One man‘s meat is another‘s poison, personal preference and income play the major role. Though I have been a Linn owner for years, I am still not a LInn diehard follower or devotional fanatic who has a blinkered notion that there is no better turntable in the whole world! Please keep an open mind and listen to some more turntables from Nottingham, SME, Avid, VPI, Transrotor, Basis and Clearaudio etc., not to mention the Continuum Caliburn and Goldmund Reference II( only for those with a deep enough pocket), before one casts a verdict. However, I still rate the Linn highly and will keep it for the rest of my life. 最後修改時間: 2010-07-24 18:26:57 |
kcc123 正式會員 80.xxx.xxx.78 |
2010-07-24 18:20 |
