兩聲道
CD機 | MD機 | SACD機 | DAC | CAS | 合拼擴音機 | 前級擴音機 | 後級擴音機 | 接線 | 喇叭線 | 揚聲器 | 耳機 | 耳機擴音機 | LP產品 | 膽機產品 | 開卷式錄音機 | 音響配件 | DIY音響 | 電源 | 家庭影院
電視機 | 投影機 | 錄影機 | DVD影碟機 | Blu-ray影碟機 | 多媒體播放器 | 機頂盒 | 多聲道擴音機 | 多聲道揚聲器 | 多聲道影音組合 | Mini音響組合 | 重低音揚聲器 | 輔助設備 | 同好會
同好會 | Accuphase | B&W | Burmester | Denon | Jadis | KEF | KRELL | Luxman | Marantz | Nuforce | OPPO | Pioneer | TEAC | WEISS | News
News | Blog | 其他
其他 | 所有 |
| 影音天地主旨 ﹝請按主旨作出回應﹞ 下頁 尾頁 | 寄件者 | 傳送日期
|
| [#5] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) "1.Can i understand it as this way: the process for convert wav/CD to digi signal is very easy to achieve "perfect" so a LowEnd CD player is more thean enough if you use SPFID/Coaxial (so no D/A convet) to your amp and let your amp to do the decode part, for HiEnd player/source we should aways use RCA output to connect to the amp (assume the build in DAC is better then the DAC in the AMP_) 2.Assuming (1) is correct, that means it shoud have no difference for below 3 settings, right? a. BD Player --HDMI--＞ AV Amp b. Mac+itune(rip CD as AIFF) --SPFID--＞ AV amp c. Mac as CD player --SPFID--＞ AV amp " bit transparent doesnt mean same jitter level to DAC, sound should be different with a , b and c |
batmanames04 正式會員61.xxx.xxx.217 |
2011-05-16 11:44 | |
|
|
|||
| [#6] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) Thanks batmanames04 , so if i have a good DAC to reduce in the receiving end, ie source -＞ good DAC--＞ AV AMP the difference between A,B,C should be very small right? |
lesterTam 正式會員 170.xxx.xxx.136 |
2011-05-16 12:06 |
| [#7] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) yes, lester Tam hing, thats right. provide you have a good dejittering DAC, b and c come close and better than a |
batmanames04 正式會員 61.xxx.xxx.217 |
2011-05-16 12:10 |
| [#8] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) thx again, So jitter really does matter in the final output result.. one more question, i see some device combined the transporter & DAC in one box(like logitech transporter, Squeezebox...) in that case there are no jitter problem anymore right? and it should achieve good sound quality(compare to CD) assume that the DAC inside is good enough. right? |
lesterTam 正式會員 170.xxx.xxx.141 |
2011-05-16 14:22 |
| [#9] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) Hey, LesterTam you know jitter is the biggest enemy to digital audio regarding transporter it is streaming audio device with build in DAC, sound just so so but from measurement, still a jittery device transporter jitter measurement after transporter internal dac  |
batmanames04 正式會員 61.xxx.xxx.217 |
2011-05-16 14:41 |
| [#10] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) for your comparison weiss minerval DAC  |
batmanames04 正式會員 61.xxx.xxx.217 |
2011-05-16 14:45 |
| [#11] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) dcs scarlatti dac  |
batmanames04 正式會員 61.xxx.xxx.217 |
2011-05-16 14:51 |
| [#12] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) hello lesterTam, thanks for your comments. ＞ 1. convert wav/CD to digi signal is very easy to achieve "perfect". It is easier to achieve "perfect" with today computers than 10 years ago. However the new DVD/CD-Rom has inferior quality is true. Today best CD/DVD/Blu-Ray roms are still vintage Plextor Premium2, Pioneer Bluray Model6 with pure read2 technologies. Computer ripping and matching ability is really high. ＞ LowEnd CD player is more thean enough if you use SPFID/Coaxial (so no D/A convet) to your amp and let your amp to do the decode part, This is more likely a videophile approach. Audiophile usually does not use has DA built into amp. (I can think of the lovely Devialet) ＞ HiEnd player/source we should aways use RCA output to connect to the amp (assume the build in DAC is better then the DAC in the AMP_) Yes, high end CD player should be better quality than the amp. And then you will find high end audio stereo amplifier is better quality.........that's how the journey is started. |
DWS 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.150 |
2011-05-17 10:03 |
| [#13] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) ＞ 2.Assuming (1) is correct, that means it shoud have no difference for below 3 settings, right? a. BD Player --HDMI--＞ AV Amp b. Mac+itune(rip CD as AIFF) --SPFID--＞ AV amp c. Mac as CD player --SPFID--＞ AV amp If a,b,c provide the exact same data, the differences will not be locate in the data content but the timing accuracy. 3.I know that jitter can be a issue for digital signal, is it noticeable? or just very minor for ppl without golden ear just like me? Don't worry about it until you have discovered the "changes". And I have to say it should be difficult to determine if it is "different" or "better/worse". |
DWS 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.150 |
2011-05-17 10:07 |
| [#14] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) ＞ So jitter really does matter in the final output result.. Yes it does matter, but how much is different for different setup and listener. ＞ transporter & DAC in one box(like logitech transporter, Squeezebox...) in that case there are no jitter problem anymore right? The transporter still needs to grab music from the computer and decode them with correct data content and timing accuracy. |
DWS 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.150 |
2011-05-17 10:09 |
| [#15] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) Batman hing transporter measurement with internal DAC. This measurement only reflects using its internal DAC. If you are using transporter (let's say with Weiss Minerva), then the Weiss Minerva can remove/reject those jitter. But can Weiss Minerva performs as good when using transporter as source, that will be another measurement set. Go with your mind and heart about sound and music, focus on listening, theory is only right if applies correctly. An example batman hing posted dCS Scarlatti and Weiss Minerva DACs. If you focus on the jitter (ps value) dCS has 37psec and Weiss has 64psec. Both are extremely low value which should bother anyway, but the fact is dCS has lower ps value. Moreover, the nosiefloor of dCS is stick with -140 while Weiss has higher noisefloor too. However one major point is the first peak value of Weiss jitter is around 2.5kHz while dCS is around 300Hz. In some people view, this is more important than 2 points in above. So again, go with your ears. |
DWS 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.150 |
2011-05-17 10:20 |
| [#17] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) DWS c hing yes, i believe using transporter spdif feeding weiss minerval will get much better jittering meassurement result. as you know there is good degittering algorithm inside weiss minerval comparing to other dac selling in the market for comparing weiss minerval vs dcs to jitter in engineering design 1 we count for 1`number of spikes happening 2 noise floor (lower the noise floor, you can hear more bits) 3 also we measure the spreading of center spectrum at the base combine 1 , 2 and 3 or simply we can say the integration of phase noise curve of the spectrum so that doesnt mean msb the best the goal of engineer is to design a dac with zero jitter output , that means a very sharp long spike at the center frequency  |
batmanames04 正式會員 180.xxx.xxx.141 |
2011-05-17 14:59 |
| [#18] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) Sorry that I can only provide short answer. ＞ 1 we count for number of spikes happening but if the spikes is as lower than -135dB, then it does not matter because -135dB is the noisefloor or almost all converters. ＞ 2 noise floor (lower the noise floor, you can hear more bits) This is only jitter measurement not SNR measurement. The reference tone is not reference 1kHz and -60dBFS that from the stardard. Therefore in jitter measurements which you posted, the lower noisefloor does not mean you can hear more bits. Many psychoacoustics reasons are lies in this area. I agree lower noisefloor in SNR measurement, higher dynamic range, less THD+N are results of more truthful to the source. But I also would like to comment that psychoacoustics reasons are more or less important because it affects how we listen. And there are others reasons too such as driving range, output impedance, output levels, and other analogue areas etc. |
DWS 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.150 |
2011-05-17 16:52 |
| [#19] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) ＞ but if the spikes is as lower than -135dB, then it does not matter because -135dB is the noisefloor or almost all converters. I am wondering why MSB getting -160dB noise floor and curious they measure msb with AP |
batmanames04 正式會員 61.xxx.xxx.217 |
2011-05-17 18:01 |
| [#20] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) Hi DWS, "Today best CD/DVD/Blu-Ray roms are still vintage Plextor Premium2, Pioneer Bluray Model6 with pure read2 technologies." For Pioneer Bluray Model 6, do you mean the 6 series of: 1) BDR-206MBK http://pioneer.jp/bdd/products/bdr_206m/index.html 2) BDR S06 http://pioneer.jp/bdd/products/bdr_s06j/ As I heard from some c-hing that any CD-Rom's ripping quality (pure CD-Rom with no writer feature)will be better than those of DVD Rom, DVD Writer nowadays. Does the pionneer Series 6 Bluray writer can be better than the CD-Rom for ripping CD purpose only? Why it is good? |
siulee400 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.78 |
2011-05-17 19:01 |
| [#21] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) And which one is better? 1) BDR S05 (Made in Japan) 2) BDR S06 (Made in Japan) 3) BDR S06 (Made in China) 3) BDR 206MBK (Made in Japan) |
siulee400 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.78 |
2011-05-17 21:20 |
| [#22] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) Except the one made in china, the rest are better. |
DWS 正式會員 80.xxx.xxx.100 |
2011-05-21 06:39 |
| [#23] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) ＞ I am wondering why MSB getting -160dB noise floor and curious they measure msb with AP batman hing. the photo you posted and the from their manuals are measured by Spectraab, not AP. |
DWS 正式會員 80.xxx.xxx.100 |
2011-05-21 14:37 |
| [#24] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) agree |
batmanames04 正式會員 61.xxx.xxx.217 |
2011-05-21 15:29 |
| [#25] Blogs: 數碼音樂重播專欄 (2) msb technlogy power dac gold4  |
batmanames04 正式會員 220.xxx.xxx.50 |
2011-05-22 09:40 |
