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[#34] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    
For a good hifi system, NOT EXPENSIVE SYSTEM, everyone should hear the difference between 0 phase and 180 phase!!
_____________________________________________
hiphopzz c-hing

That's the point. Yes, NOT out-of-phase, inverted phase (0 degree to 180 degree). If you are familiar with classical music, your system is well presenting the recording, you can hear this. Even though a non-audiophile guy (my wife) can hear the different. When the phase is correct, first you hear more airy from wood winds, you hear more details from violins, the position of all musical instruments can be clearly identify its position in the orchestra. Many many to prove but my poor English can describe this. So that that I don't know how to type Chinese using PC.
classicalbug
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210.xxx.xxx.21
2009-11-12 14:08
[#35] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    
聽返正相好多功夫?
-----------------------------------------
唔係吖!把喇叭線紅黑反轉,相位便馬上反轉了!
Pilotrol
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221.xxx.xxx.180
2009-11-12 14:13
[#36] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    
No need to argue and cut your heads. They are all physics and engineering. Just draw out all the graphs can prove whether different sound will be produced.
oldbird
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202.xxx.xxx.142
2009-11-12 14:27
[#37] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    
反o左相o既聲有點似雲遊太空咁,虛虛浮浮,唔夠實淨
sherman1215
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118.xxx.xxx.165
2009-11-12 15:36
[#38] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    

6moons.com - Fazed About Polarity and Phase ?

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/polarity/polarity.html

"Absolute polarity. In phase. Sometimes audiophiles get confused. Which is which? Absolute polarity means that a leading edge is heard as a positive pressure wave or compression (higher density), not a negative wave or rarefaction (lower density or decompression). ......"

digitalstereo
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219.xxx.xxx.160
2009-11-12 15:48
[#39] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    

hiphopzz hing,

"inverted phase:
If any one can hear the difference, I cut my head for you to seat.."

Every time when I press the "Phase" button of my DAC, I can hear the difference.

With absolute polarity of the CD, the bass will be more solid, the voice will be more sweet and the treble will be more clear.

But you can keep your head for your own use - just joking :=)

Happing listening


digitalstereo
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219.xxx.xxx.160
2009-11-12 15:56
[#40] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    

My DAC



digitalstereo
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219.xxx.xxx.160
2009-11-12 15:57
[#41] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    
oldbird c-hing,

are you talking about inverted phase...?
I just know out-of-phase can cancel sound from each speakers and sounds "hollow"...

Pls tell me theory behind for inverted phase...

Thousand of thanks.. ^^

......................................................................................................


digitalstereo c-hing,

If you are sure there is difference, I really hope we can arrange blind test..

Honestly, I really appreciate if you can help..

Thousand of thanks.. again.. ^^
hiphopzz
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59.xxx.xxx.60
2009-11-12 16:27
[#42] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    

http://www.herronaudio.com/images/Polarity.pdf

Go to page two and you can read this.

"Is Absolute Polarity Absolute ?

Considerations from an Engineering Perspective

By Keith Herron"



digitalstereo
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219.xxx.xxx.160
2009-11-12 16:36
[#43] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    
呢件附件雖然用黎測試喇叭相位,但另一角度諗,即係可以測試cd是否反相錄音......

http://gato-shop.com/en/phase-it-39/phase-it-99.html
wowow
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202.xxx.xxx.117
2009-11-12 16:56
[#44] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    
digitalstereo c-hing,

Thank you very much for your sharing.

I read it and briefly conclude 2 points from it.
Design of speaker and inserting a unity gain phase inverter

The first point may be relevant since different phase of driver. Reversing phase may give more coherent phase.

But the second point,I think, is quite unrelevant...

Any c-hing can share idea..? ^^
hiphopzz
個人訊息 正式會員
59.xxx.xxx.60
2009-11-12 17:19
[#45] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    
> 呢件附件雖然用黎測試喇叭相位,但另一角度諗,
> 即係可以測試cd是否反相錄音......
This device cannot help to find out "cd是否反相錄音". It can only tell whether the 'physical connection' of the speakers is correct (check the correct polarity of the speakers). There are many simple ways to check the polarity of speakers (or the systems). No need to buy this expensive device for such simple task.


最後修改時間: 2009-11-12 17:21:39
patrickwong
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221.xxx.xxx.30
2009-11-12 17:20
[#46] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    
hiphopzz hing,
yes, I am talking about "inverted phase". I just recall when I did experiment in the U on feedback/control systems, plotting input/output graphs on the motions/signals, comparing the distortion and phase shift of the input/output.

People are concerned on the inverted phase because the speaker suppose will push out the cone will become suck in. People claim that they can hear the difference and the sound will be better if the polarity is correct. However, sound is reproduced by a series of vibrations , i.e. in and out motions of the speaker cone. What effect will be on the sound produced with inverted phase? I don't know and have not auditioned it before. If some C-hing has experience on this, please share. What I can imagine (from an input of a simple sine wave and cause the speaker cone to move) is just a time shift of the motion. It is still a sine wave.
To my limited knowledge on electronics, different frequency will have different phase shift in the same circuit. So, does it really have effect with just making a 180 deg phase change ? It may also inverted some frequency incorrectly?
oldbird
個人訊息 正式會員
202.xxx.xxx.142
2009-11-12 18:08
[#47] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    
JBL 的舊喇叭全是反相的,好多用家都照聽冇去反番正佢。
孟波
個人訊息 正式會員
218.xxx.xxx.240
2009-11-12 21:41
[#48] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    
係唔係反相錄音. 一般聆聽都冇問題.
如果冇資料話比你知隻碟既錄音係反相錄音定係正相錄音.
你聽唔聽得出隻碟係乜相錄音.

其實果d 音響器材有指示輸入輸出既相位, 作用係比d 錄音工程師連接器材及混音錄音時張d 相位搞清楚才開工. 確保錄音/混音出來相位正確.
PLL
個人訊息 正式會員
203.xxx.xxx.157
2009-11-12 21:57
[#49] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    
再分享
如果cd 是反相錄音, 如你的前級或dac 是反相, 剛剛好, 來個負負得正, 變成沒問題. 好不好奇怪..

我之前係鴨記買左4只穩壓牛 做外置 正/反制, 但訊號受干擾 燥音及高頻有損失 所以失敗, 要訂做兩只牛再做 !
kaka1122
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218.xxx.xxx.41
2009-11-12 22:07
[#50] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    
好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?
==============================================

This is my solution.



sktung
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124.xxx.xxx.184
2009-11-12 22:39
[#51] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    
轉載:
輸出訊號反相有沒有問題?這點很有爭議。如果我們大膽的說一句:『無關』或『影響不大』,那肯定遭Hi-End支持者抨擊,可是當您發現喇叭相位誤差動輒在90度以上、有些CD唱片根本一開始就是反相錄音時,您還非常在意輸出訊號反相的問題嗎?


先說錄音時正相或反相的可信度,在錄音與混音時音樂訊號會通過非常多的「關卡」,就算樂器發聲會有正相反相之分,在經過那麼長的路徑之後,正相反相也早已'模糊'了。最後要把音樂訊號錄製在母帶上時,一定要把其中一個訊號當作「正極」訊號,另一個訊號當作「負極」訊號,這樣才有辦法錄下來。換句話說,當錄音器材已經「自作主張」分好正極或負極訊號之後,我們的音響器材只要一路正接正、負接負不要弄錯,就可以得到絕對相位的聲音。

最後,就算您知道某個錄音是反相輸出,我們用反相輸出的擴大機來聽,聲音就會比較好嗎?有些人或許信誓旦旦的說可以聽出正反相切換開關切換時的不同,但是可以聽出不同並不意味著切在反相位置上聲音一定會比較好。所以,有些擴大機其實是反相輸出,但並不一定會特別告知,因為他們認為這並不會影響聲音的好壞。有些廠商則會特別告知,此時您可以不做任何對應動作,就與平常一樣聽音樂就可;您也可以把喇叭線接端的正極與負極對調(左右二聲道都要),試試看聲音是否會比較好。

劉漢盛
chorous
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116.xxx.xxx.100
2009-11-13 12:19
[#52] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    
如果我們大膽的說一句:『無關』或『影響不大』,那肯定遭Hi-End支持者抨擊.........
....................................................................

Yes, I have been blamed many times before……
But I really can’t hear the difference and find no theory to support….

So, I really appreciate any c-hing to enlighten me on it…

^^
hiphopzz
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59.xxx.xxx.60
2009-11-13 15:40
[#53] 好多cd 都是反相錄音, 聽返正相好多功夫, 有簡單解決 ?    
我覺得這裏的討論有點混亂, 因為大家對所說謂「反相錄音」的定義有所不同, 以下是兩個不同的定義:
定義A:「反相錄音」是指 Stereo 左右兩條聲軌其中一條 Polarity 反了, 亦即我們通常講的 out-of-phase 。
定義B: 「反相錄音」是指 Stereo 左右兩條聲軌兩條都反了Polarity。

我覺得一般人所講的是定義A, 亦相信是樓主所想的。以下所講的都以定義A出發。

「一般」Stereo 左右兩條聲軌其中一條 Polarity 反了不用好的器材也很容易聽到的。

其實在一年前類似的討論在另一個 forum 出現過, 我將我一年前寫過的在這引述一些:
“反相錄音 is one of the hottest topics and we can see this topic from time to time in different forum. First of all, I think that the title’反相錄音’ is not quite correct. The result of ‘反相’ in the media (LP, CD, DVD etc) may not be caused by the反相 in the recording session. The production of the media goes through many processes (mixing, mastering etc) from the recording session to the final product. A mistake in one process can cause 反相. I think most of producers and recording engineers do not intense to make a 反相錄音. For some recordings I like, I have different versions/releases/media of the same recordings. Sometimes, I can find different phase in different media for the same recording. For example:
1. The phase in the original release is correct but the out of phase issue may happen in the later release.
2. The phase in a UK pressing LP is correct but it is out of phase in the US pressing LP.
3. The phase in the vinyl is correct but it is out of phase in the CD.
4. The phase, even in the same release (but the record was pressed in different manufactory plant), can be different! (I have two records of the album Moving (PP&M), one of my favourite albums. Both of them are US Gold Label pressing and I think they were pressed in the same period. One has correct phase but another is out of phase).
5. And there are other different combinations.

The phase of the media we owned may not be the same phase as the master tape! How do we know it is反相錄音? We may just have the反相 media. And I believe a serious production does not produce a 反相 master tape (though there may have phase shift but it is not 反相).

因為媒體上其中一條聲道反了相, 要麻煩我們播放時將播放系統設置變成反相(將speaker cable正負極反轉, 或者用正反相位掣 etc )才有好的效果, 唱片公司這個’ 不小心’就帶來我們樂迷不少麻煩! (some people do not know this issue and listen such records in worse sound)”


最後修改時間: 2009-11-13 16:46:12
patrickwong
個人訊息 正式會員
221.xxx.xxx.171
2009-11-13 16:42
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