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| [#1] 普通電腦CD機可否閱讀100%(完全相同)光碟資料 Linn - Majik DS DAC 普通電腦CD機可否閱讀100%(完全相同)光碟資料 (Linn - Majik DS DAC) Could identical CD data extracted by ordinary CD-Rom, then store in PC-Harddisk by FLAC file? Scenario 1 (It is my inception similar to the film – Inception released in 2010) If you break into HSBC’s data centre, and “burn” all HSBC client’s bank accounts data into a CD-Rom. Then you open the copied data in your home’s computer, it is believed that the summation of all bank accounts (perhaps $10,000,000,000,000,000,000.00 dollars) at your home-PC will be the identical to the calculated result using the master data at HSBC’s data centre. If not, Wall Street already has financial disasters! Scenario 2 (Hi-Fi guy, tell you such mystery) If you break-in to Sony-Studio, and “burn” a master sound track data of 44kHz/16 bit data into a CD-Rom. Then you open the copied data in your home’s computer. By perception, Hi-Fi guy tell you that the digital data at your home’s PC cannot be identical to the Master data as in Sony-Studio. Scenario 1 always is in conflict with Scenario 2 If Scenario 1 is more acceptable, then Is it a joke? Or what kind of logic those Hi-Fi Guy trying to promote? For DAC conversion, we agree that there must be some loss (perhaps distortion to be more precise). But for Master-Digital Data (i.e. in studio) to Secondary-Digital Data (i.e. Compact Disc), will there be any loss with the implementation of algorithm and checking program in the play-back device/codec? I have limited mathematical and engineering sense, but I believe there are already built-in algorithm / parity checking formula to ensure the Secondary-Digital Data to be identical with the Master-Digital Data during play-back by third party device/codec? (except from the studio / producer purposely down-grade the quality of the secondary-digital data source for commercial reasons) Remember, Scenario 1 should be generally true, otherwise, watch your HSBC account, it already has some error:) The aim of the above question is to explore the theory whether ORDINARY CD-Rom could extract IDENTICAL CD data, then store the extracted data by FLAC format in an ORDINARY hard-disk. If we can't extract identical raw CD data from a compact disc, what is the point to buy a Linn -Majik DS? I am very interested to own a Linn Majik DS too, but I must have a clearly ideal HOW GOOD we could extract the raw CD data first! C-Hing請指教，謝謝。 2010-09-02 最後修改時間: 2010-09-02 19:21:36 |
bh2007 正式會員210.xxx.xxx.33 |
2010-09-02 19:10 | |
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| [#2] 普通電腦CD機可否閱讀100%(完全相同)光碟資料? digital transimmision with error correction (especially non-realtime) should be 100% identical in data. your HSBC assumption is simply unrealistic, every digital copy should be identical, but all data stored in server were encrypted, without decoding scheme and the "key", all data were meaningless even it's 100% same as the server stored. So every PCM audio file can be 100% same as master no matter you store in server, USB drive or Micro SD, from resolution of 16/44 to 32/352. But you can never copy, rip and capture SACD in DSD because they're encrypted. that's why recording companies reluctant to releases album as hi-rez download, and no way to release XXCD remaster to rip your money few times from same album. 最後修改時間: 2010-09-02 19:38:09 |
hercules 正式會員 112.xxx.xxx.213 |
2010-09-02 19:27 |
| [#3] 普通電腦CD機可否閱讀100%(完全相同)光碟資料? Thank you Hercules C-Hing's info. According to Hecules’s explanation, Even, we get the raw digital data and decode them according to the Philip's RED-BOOK standard, we can never re-construct the digial signal exactly as the Master Digital Signal produced in the Studio. This is because the Philips Red-Book Standard already design an algorithm preventing end-user to re-construct the raw digital identical to the master digital signal at the first place!!!!!! Is my interpretation correct? So the quality of “RIPPING” process seems as critical as the “DAC” process? (which is generally igonred by HiFi people!) How good is the built-in ripping software from Windows Media Player (they claimed that their WAV format are also lossless!) Thank you 2010-09-02 最後修改時間: 2010-09-02 20:17:43 |
bh2007 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.33 |
2010-09-02 20:13 |
| [#4] 普通電腦CD機可否閱讀100%(完全相同)光碟資料? I don't know what you are thinking and always on evil side......red book specification never modify the data to avoid you getting truly hifi quality audio. Firstly, the studio master in unedited/raw form is not the same format as the final product on your hand, it's multiple tracks (not channels), from 2 track to over hundred tracks of PCM data ranging from 16/44 to 32/384Khz depend on recording engineer choice, then post-production process as mixing and mastering, blend them into two channels 16/44khz data in red book format as final prooduct for consumer to play in CD player. Sometimes we referring 16/44 studio master as the finalized data ready for CD duplication plant to press the CD for sell. The CD played in CD player, still subject to three steps can generate loss or modified data compared with the 16/44 studio master file. 1.16/44 Studio Master files burn into CD-R in Audio CD format, better the burning quality, less loss, can be fully eliminate by sending the Master file over internet to the CD pressing machine. 2. Making of Physical CD media, the disc not perfectly duplicated due to material and quality control, every disc quality can be difference, C1/C2 BLER rate can reflect the pressing quality. Better quality control, less loss. 3. Our CD player, optical pickup and mechanical parts like motor/servo/vibration control, electronics like signal amplifier, error correction, and the reading process is in realtime, no re-try or re-read is possible with traditional CD transport, how faithful the data can be read, that affect how good the data to be feeding into DAC, but Digital to Analog also affected by power and clocking issue. If above 3 lossy steps can be control as strict as you can, it's possible to have data very like the original, and ripping of CD can avoid problem as stated in step 3, as the software can re-read and compare till it's correct, 100% of data on the CD can be retrieved, but due to the limitation of step 2, it's still not the same as 16/44 studio master as loss in data can't be retrieve and recover, the hole to be filled by software "guessing" So there are some online store selling 16/44 even 24/96 studio master file, to play in Computer or media player, that totally eliminate 3 lossy steps you will encountered with CD as carrier. The ripping quality depend of the disc condition and the software able to detect and correct error. For perfect disc, most ripper will give almost the same quality, but for scratched disc, Exact Audio Copy gives best result. 最後修改時間: 2010-09-02 21:40:21 |
hercules 正式會員 112.xxx.xxx.213 |
2010-09-02 21:36 |
| [#5] 普通電腦CD機可否閱讀100%(完全相同)光碟資料? Again thank you Hercules C-Hing's professional information and great patient to explain the technical aspect of Digital Audio to a layman. Now, I am a bit confuse about what you explained for the raw digital signal pick-up in a Compact Disc at STAGE 3. Suppose, I have two raw digital signal pick-up device for compact disc as follows:- (a) "Accuphase DP-800" transpose and (b) an ordinary CD-Rom in a PC (with data correction) In theory ordinary CD-Rom (with data correction) could pick-up raw digital data as good/faith as "Accuphase DP-800" for a given good quality compact disc before transformation the raw data to WAV or FLAC format. In order words, the Accuphase DP-800 becomes use-less when HiFi people going to rip CD! Am I right or wrong? So I guess the record industry will face a sever negative impact! Even HiFi people will lose interest to buy CD, instead people will exchange high quality 16/44 sound track in the internet privately like young chap (back to the Nippier age)! 2010-09-02 最後修改時間: 2010-09-02 23:50:41 |
bh2007 正式會員 116.xxx.xxx.84 |
2010-09-02 23:43 |
| [#6] 普通電腦CD機可否閱讀100%(完全相同)光碟資料? I don't want to confuse you further so everything in short. a) You can play instantly just by pressing play, better the player, better sound u can get. b) People don't use CD-Rom to player CD directly, but store in Harddisk, and play by software. But computer is noisy, and software can mess up the music, sound card sound not as good as Hi-Fi, so most CAS user will bought external DAC with USB or Firewire, and file Storage, library management, storage format and backup is another issue, creating another mess. A lot of attention to be taken to make computer sing nicely. So you can't simply draw conclusion who win who lose, just use in the way you like most. 最後修改時間: 2010-09-03 00:21:18 |
hercules 正式會員 112.xxx.xxx.44 |
2010-09-03 00:19 |
| [#7] 普通電腦CD機可否閱讀100%(完全相同)光碟資料? Hi Hercules C Hing, New question for digital audio layman again. Suppose I mark "0" or "1" in a paper at 4 second interval from 1 to 15 second, (i.e. at 1, 5, 9 & 13 second), which represent basic CD write standard at 44 kHz. If I read the marked paper (CD-Player) only at 1; 5; 9; & 13 second, it still extracts the intend data I want. Now I double the reading speed (CD-player, 88 kHz) at 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 & 15 seconds, it still extracts the data, but at 3, 7, 11 & 15 seconds the data are read as blank! Now even increase the reading speed at x4 (CD-Player at 192 kHz) at 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 & 16 second. Same again, only data at 1, 5, 9 & 13 second are meaningful. The remained data are blank! Back to the question, why cd-player designer would instruct the machine to read blink data at 88 or 192 kHz? If the data density and read speed is already defined in Red-Book standard. By default, we cannot extract more data by simply increase the reading speed. It is because no matter how fast you read, the data still store at a capacity of 16/44 format? Please help to explain, the purpose for over-sample behind although I am innocent. At 1900s, there was 1 bit / 44 KHz CD player, as Compact Disc is recorded at 16/44 how is it work anyway? Thank you very much. 2010-09-04 最後修改時間: 2010-09-04 20:48:49 |
bh2007 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.243 |
2010-09-04 20:45 |
| [#8] 普通電腦CD機可否閱讀100%(完全相同)光碟資料 Linn - Majik DS DAC ＃1 HSBC 可能有hidden data |
Yatchboats 會員 219.xxx.xxx.129 |
2021-12-21 08:13 |
| [#9] 普通電腦CD機可否閱讀100%(完全相同)光碟資料 Linn - Majik DS DAC rip file 永遠得唔得原來的聲音⋯⋯討論 |
15--16 正式會員 94.xxx.xxx.235 |
2021-12-21 15:48 |
| [#10] 普通電腦CD機可否閱讀100%(完全相同)光碟資料 Linn - Majik DS DAC 如果我哋將一啲文件檔案Word或者Excel file燒落隻CD碟嗰度，之後係咪可以完全攞得返出嚟冇錯誤？我唔知道呢啲檔案有冇加咗除錯嘅bit，如果冇嘅話又能夠100%讀返出嚟，噉樣影響音質就唔係資料能否100%被讀出，反而係另外嘅原因。 |
DYreal 正式會員 124.xxx.xxx.26 |
2021-12-21 18:23 |
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