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[#1] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
請教一下,同一款full range driver,配Back loaded horn或bass reflex箱,雖然聲音取向一定會不同,但哪一款效果會好一點?從未玩過full range driver,心目中的full range driver是audio nirvana super 12 ferrite,希望聽聽各位的意見。謝謝!




sugano
個人訊息 會員
210.xxx.xxx.10
2018-07-23 18:22
[#2] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
睇規格你對單元用back loaded horn 會更合適。

1.Q值高
2.最大衝程1mm。


最後修改時間: 2018-07-23 18:46:29
孟波
個人訊息 會員
123.xxx.xxx.26
2018-07-23 18:45
[#3] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
官網資料。。。
http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/nirvana.html

99.99% of all speaker cabinets ever made are 'bass reflex' designs. We feel that PROPERLY DESIGNED bass reflex DIY cabinets give the best possible sound.

However, Audio Nirvana DIY speakers can work well in bass horn, transmission line, open baffle, and infinite baffle cabinet designs. These require 'short excursion' drivers (speakers) and that's what all Audio Nirvana DIY speakers are.

We offer more than 15 different bass reflex and open baffle DIY cabinet designs for Audio Nirvana full-range DIY speakers. You will receive a free cabinet plan, parts list, setup tips, and pictures showing proper damping material installation--with any purchase.

Please note that Audio Nirvana DIY speakers are the 'engine'. The DIY cabinet is the 'chassis'. If the DIY cabinet is not right, the overall sound will not be right. Because most Audio Nirvanas are built as kits, some are not being built correctly. It is very important to us that EVERY Audio Nirvana customer get the best possible sound. If you build our cabinets EXACTLY as designed, you will get great sound. If you bought DIY cabinets for our speakers elsewhere, or purchased Audio Nirvanas already built by someone else, please check with us that the build was done correctly.
ktli
個人訊息 會員
112.xxx.xxx.64
2018-07-23 19:39
[#4] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
#2
Thanks for your input.

#3
The manufacturer seems to be against the horn loaded design. From their site:

Problems historically associated with bass horn DIY speaker cabinets are as follows:

1. Distortion is created by reflections from the 'box' behind the speaker, which has no damping material.

2. Horn-loaded designs tend to 'fatten' or 'smear' the midrange and upper bass regions of the music.

3. Stereo imaging and soundstage are poor with bass horn designs.

4. Horn-loaded cabinets exhibit a ragged bass response.

5. Horn-loaded cabinets do not play very low bass.

6. Horn-loaded cabinets are very difficult and expensive to build, and hard to place in most rooms.

7. There is no significant efficiency advantage with bass horn designs.

8. It is possible to overdrive bass horns to distortion.

9. Horn Loaded cabinets were never designed to accommodate full-range speakers. They were originally designed only for bass frequencies from 200 hz and lower.

Confused? Anyone?

最後修改時間: 2018-07-23 20:28:46
sugano
個人訊息 會員
210.xxx.xxx.10
2018-07-23 20:24
[#5] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
一睇,就知此網係講front loaded horn.
孟波
個人訊息 會員
123.xxx.xxx.26
2018-07-23 20:30
[#6] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
#5
原来是这样理解。谢谢。
sugano
個人訊息 會員
210.xxx.xxx.10
2018-07-23 20:39
[#7] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
睇真係炒埋一碟。
孟波
個人訊息 會員
123.xxx.xxx.26
2018-07-23 20:44
[#8] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
造工咁複雜,又係幾蝦人DIY嘅。

孟波
個人訊息 會員
123.xxx.xxx.26
2018-07-23 21:06
[#9] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
其實號角低頻可以潛到很低,除了速度快,還很清析,但量感和傳統的不同,所以,不是人人能接受,有人喜歡,有人拒絕。小弟便是棄3/5a,轉玩全頻的一員。
以下是個人玩Lowther背負載號角喇叭的經驗,
如果聽音室有側,後墻,那便會較易調校平衡,和好玩,因為折疊號角的長度也有限制,那幾幅墻便是音箱號角的伸延,喇叭擺放置的位置,不論前,後,左,右,軸向靠中,靠側。。。等等,些微變化,都直接影響號角的形狀,對整體平衡都有影響,可以好衰聲,可以好靚聲。如果是玩Lowther的,都是三號角的(音箱內有一長,一短,加上單元那小音盤和輻射器,就是有三個號角了),要讓三個號角的聲達到平衡,真是很難很難,能不叫已經不易了。當年群組經常掛在咀邊的,便是衰聲容易好聲難。
因為喇叭效率高,用小功率擴音機便可以,當年到代理的試音室聽。。。用幾百W的巨獸推,再加釘腳,叫他做大聲公便差不多。
如果純粹想聽聽全頻的特式,到商場便可以感受到,聲音是開揚,從容不迫,就是沒高,沒低。
師兄想玩全頻+號角,請三思。
ktli
個人訊息 會員
112.xxx.xxx.64
2018-07-23 21:30
[#10] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
這兩個音箱圖片都是Lowther單元用的,左面是audiovector,右面是bicor 20. 網些可以找到更多型號音箱。




最後修改時間: 2018-07-23 22:03:27
ktli
個人訊息 會員
112.xxx.xxx.64
2018-07-23 22:02
[#11] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
#9

Thanks for the kind advice.

I’m using a 2 way bass reflex floor stander driven by 300b se amp; so far I love this set up most of the time except playing some large scale music. When more power is needed I’ll just swap in the solid state power amp to do the job.

Very curious about the full ranger as many audiophiles swear by it so I auditioned some but it always sounded too dry and brittle to my taste or the environment wasn’t just optimal....

Will I be able to learn to like the full rangers? I’m not giving it up yet.
Sugano
個人訊息 會員
210.xxx.xxx.10
2018-07-23 22:05
[#12] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
聽horn的朋友是否一般都不會再回頭或同時聽低音反射或密封式喇叭呢?
Sugano
個人訊息 會員
210.xxx.xxx.10
2018-07-23 22:15
[#13] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
#12 我自己是不會
ktli
個人訊息 會員
112.xxx.xxx.64
2018-07-23 22:45
[#14] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
除了klipsch好少喇叭係全頻行horn loaded,一般玩horn都係上庄用horn下庄用返直接輻射式箱負載低音。

間接輻射式勝在效率高,可以玩單端細瓦機,傳統直接輻射式喇叭勝在多元化,各有各好。
孟波
個人訊息 會員
123.xxx.xxx.26
2018-07-24 00:03
[#15] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
小弟個人覺得以技術層面上睇Back Loaded Horn設計最大缺陷是低音Back Wave相位延遲問題,而Bass Reflex設計則可以把Back Wave相位延遲情況問題降至很低!不過Back Loaded Horn效率卻又要比Bass Reflex高,低音也更鬆容!個人覺得音響設計始終針冇兩頭利!

小弟個人覺得反而覺得Back Loaded Horn本身有較大箱聲音染,而Bass Reflex則箱聲音染較低...有箱聲音染卻又逆不一定是壞事!因為合適箱聲音染有時候卻會提升重播某些樂器的真實感例如提琴和鋼琴(箱聲結構與真實樂器箱聲結構相近時,結局重播時聲音會更接近真實樂器的音色)!

其實音響是一門很有趣的科學,我哋認知音響理論只係解釋物理現象,但唔一定可以分辦所得出的好與壞!啱唔啱自己都係要靠自己耳仔聽!

最後修改時間: 2018-07-24 07:29:35
Pilotrol
個人訊息 會員
216.xxx.xxx.231
2018-07-24 07:28
[#16] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
Back loaded horn甚少喇叭廠使用,聽過最正係教父高未走時最後換那對Tannoy autogragh,它的低音伸展自然效率又高,微細聲音出得很清晰。

個人覺得用back loaded horn取其優點是最大程度提升單元在低頻段音壓下降較大的曲線,解決和較高頻率差距大令全頻不協調的問題,特別適合用在高效率full range單元上。

如果一般單元Q值又低衝程又較長,用反射式又已經足夠令低音有合理伸延,不建議造back loaded horn.

最後修改時間: 2018-07-24 08:55:17
孟波
個人訊息 會員
14.xxx.xxx.246
2018-07-24 08:51
[#17] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
Bass reflex 在市場現實中已成為標準,各規格好壞嘅考慮往往變得次要,因為音樂製作時多數以此為標準,啲反射聲都已在製作中成為其中材料。
peter827
個人訊息 會員
182.xxx.xxx.74
2018-07-24 09:32
[#18] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
Peter兄:

如果用ported代替reflex又點睇呢?
孟波
個人訊息 會員
123.xxx.xxx.26
2018-07-24 11:30
[#19] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
孟波兄果然專業,事實一般都係ported當reflex。
peter827
個人訊息 會員
182.xxx.xxx.74
2018-07-24 12:51
[#20] Back loaded horn vs bass reflex    
如果樓主確實要入道,個人建議買ALNICO的,價格比FERRITE貴不少,但不會后悔的。
ktli
個人訊息 會員
221.xxx.xxx.183
2018-07-24 13:19
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