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[#1] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
若同是 89db 的 bookshelf(6-7" woofer) & floorstand (10" woofer) 那*易推出平衡高/低音?
有說小喇叭要大 power "谷" 低音出來,
又有說大音箱大單完要大 power 去 drive...
到那*易推 D ? 重髡b那裡?


ck1357
個人訊息 會員
203.xxx.xxx.123
2008-10-23 11:02
[#2] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
小喇叭d 低音本來係小就係小,
大 power 係"谷"極都"谷"唔到大單元既低音效果.

不過而家香港大部份住宅單位都細到無倫,
細到小power小喇叭d 低音都好夠.
Dear-Daniel
個人訊息 會員
210.xxx.xxx.83
2008-10-23 14:08
[#3] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
若覺得用細喇叭不易推出低音, 若系統不變改用大喇叭Z否更佳? 聾艉j喇叭大食低音難推出來!!
ck1357
個人訊息 會員
203.xxx.xxx.20
2008-10-23 14:32
[#4] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
都係睇型號睇db呢 !! 無大小之分的 好似號角般
hkmk
個人訊息 會員
58.xxx.xxx.194
2008-10-23 14:34
[#5] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
幾大地方??
ming0119
個人訊息 會員
218.xxx.xxx.84
2008-10-23 15:12
[#6] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
actually, for same 89dB speaker.
no matter 6" or 10" woofer , they are all the same.
I believe we should look at the impedance curve of the speaker, rather than dB, 高Ohm in the 30~500Hz range, easier to drive, 低 Ohm in the range, eat more current , diffcult to drive.

actually, dB and impedance may not be go up and down in same pattern.

Dynaudio some time commented by other diffcult to drive, actually it is because their bass range impedance is low.

faileung
個人訊息 會員
210.xxx.xxx.6
2008-10-23 17:54
[#7] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
JM Lab Utopia Grande (4 ways) also got very low impedance in 50~100Hz, as low as 2.4Ohm, (measured by StereoSound Japan in 153 issue). eat huge current, need big power>400W/ch power amp.

actually if I can buy that model , I should got enough money for Big power amp
faileung
個人訊息 會員
210.xxx.xxx.6
2008-10-23 17:57
[#8] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
please mention the speaker OHM and DB !
SOMETHING LIKE THE THIEL SPEAKER !
VERY EASY TO PUSH !
BUT THE SOUND IS GOOD ?
THAT,S DEPENDS ON YOUR AMP !
thomascook
個人訊息 會員
59.xxx.xxx.40
2008-10-24 04:19
[#9] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
Normally , for same manufacturer 's woofer in different inch, the sensitivity must be different (dB).

In General large woofer may have higher sensitivity (like 92~96dB for 12") , 6" may got 88dB. if both of them are 8Ohm, they are almost the same.

However, for comparing 1x 12" with 2 x 6" woofer, they are very different, even their dB are the same. normally for 2x6" woofer, it is 4Ohm(2 x 8Ohm connect in parrallel).

易推is very HK style term. Thiel 's speaker is not diffcult to push but need to match with pre and power amp.
faileung
個人訊息 會員
210.xxx.xxx.6
2008-10-24 10:18
[#10] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
If you look at Morel(UK) woofer and Eton(Germany) woofer specification, their impedance curve is totally different (both of them got 6").

need to match with different style amplifier.

faileung
個人訊息 會員
210.xxx.xxx.6
2008-10-24 10:20
[#11] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
bookshelf speaker of 6ohm, 89db, in a 150sq. ft room. use 100W class A amp, still feel the bottom base not balance!肏蚳為, 但低頻不夠 solid 也不夠! 再扭大 D, 低頻改善, 但中高太! noted that 89db not represent the full range response...
若要較平衡的效果, 應怎選喇叭? those speaker's specifications seems not tell you all the truth!!

faileung: thanks your info, but how can I check the impedance curve of the target speaker? (where to find the details and how to "read"...?)

furthermore, 易推的不代表好, 尚需合乎口味! 要配搭(amp-spk)有合理發揮, 要注意那方面配合?

迷途!
ck1357
個人訊息 會員
203.xxx.xxx.143
2008-10-24 10:32
[#12] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    

yes, you are correct, not many manufacturer disclose imepdance curve. as they are not dare to disclose it. (I believe JM Labs one is obvious does not want anyone to see the Utopia's diagram)

therefore, I believe some western/japan mag or SoundStage.com did some good job as they really measure and publish the SPL and impednace curve. I believe we may need to find it on the web.


faileung
個人訊息 會員
210.xxx.xxx.6
2008-10-24 12:40
[#13] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
sorry, I can read some chinese character.

for the bass to fill solid , I believe there must be enough loudness in order for you to feel the solid feeling. very very diffcult to feel a solid drum with low volume.

when the bass is enough but the treble/midrange is too 尖? or 太大聲? sorry can't read the chi.

but normally 89dB is not too bad ar, actually there is norms, if unpublished, it is +-3dB for the range he publish. like 45Hz ~ 22KHz. it should be pretty flat within that range.

but of course , how to control that +-3dB is the technique or secret of the loudspeaker manufacuter, as how they control the SPL (frequency curve) will shift the tone of the speaker. a little bit less in 2-3k or a little bit higher in 5-6KHz will have very different tone.

if you amp and speaker is fixed, you may use the cable to tune sound la. if it is possible to biwire for the speaker, you may use copper for tweeter and silver for woofer , (just prelimary thought , may not work, need you to listen and make the final decision)
faileung
個人訊息 會員
210.xxx.xxx.6
2008-10-24 12:53
[#14] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
hello, also don't know why Chinese words can't display correctly!!
I mean, if i turn vol up (a really loud volume), the base seems better, but the Mid-Hi become too loud and some distortion(from amp or spk??) anyway too harsh!
I already by wire (copper+silver for bass, and silver for mid/hi) no complain except the bass! is this effect due to not sufficient power to drive the spks? should I try to use more thin cable for mid/hi?
use a floor stand speaker can improve the performance? just worry those floor stand spks eat too much power that difficult to drive! that's why I post here ask for help!!
ck1357
個人訊息 會員
203.xxx.xxx.60
2008-10-24 14:39
[#15] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
Floorstander also got diffcult to push speaker ar. actually no matter bookshelf or floorstander got the same character. Some floorstander also eat up many current ar.

If you are not comfortable with your speaker bass/mid/treble balance, just upgrade la.

not a problem of floorstnader or bookshelf or large inch or small inch. 難推depends on the impedance in bass region not the inch la.

actually the voice coil diameter of woofer will also affect the 推able character. but it is too far....., too much too explain.
faileung
個人訊息 會員
210.xxx.xxx.6
2008-10-24 15:29
[#16] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
actually the voice coil and spider of the woofer is talking about 感抗 (resistance to power amp) of the woofer , and the 感抗 will affect => 起動speed of the woofer => affect the solid感 of the bass ..... too much to explain also...

of course, lower 感抗 woofer should be better... but still depends on surround(膠邊)/cone weight and stiffness.....
faileung
個人訊息 會員
210.xxx.xxx.6
2008-10-24 15:36
[#17] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
講真, 電子常識及理論我不太懂, 但以我經驗所知, 每每同系列的喇叭, 書架式都是最難推, db最低, 同一部機同一個音量推大d低音的座地型號, 又真係會大聲小小, 因座地款靈敏度一般都高d, 的確易推d; 但記往易推d大聲d唔代表易控制得好喎, 試想想1個6"低音同12"低音的面積不是大一倍而是幾倍, 物理上空氣是有一定阻力的, 試想想如要控一個大幾倍的音盆很快速地推出, 然後又很快速又平衡地收回, 咁部後級的控制力是否亦同樣需要大幾倍才可, 細聲聽下人聲就無什麼分別, 但當開大聲及聽d爆棚樂張好多低音時, 便會控制唔到個大低音單元而亂晒. 所以當設計喇叭時, 他們都會因個低音大了而用一d更靚阻擴更低的分音配件, 令個喇叭靈敏度高d易推d.

所以理論上細音箱是難推d, 但實際上大音箱是更難控制, 需要個後級的輸出和damping factor 更好才可. 如果已有部有力有質素的後級, 唔駛問當然玩大喇叭啦!

(希望講錯有高人指正, 唔好見笑)
天籟
個人訊息 會員
220.xxx.xxx.37
2008-10-24 16:06
[#18] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
thanks c-hing..., let me digest...
If the amp can't drive a 89db bookshelf well, will it perform better if change to floor stand of same 89db? (maximum 10" woofer)
as bigger woofer difficult to control, how about similar woofer size in bookshelf compare to floor stand design? will it be better (balance) in hi-mid-bass region?
"base region impedance" seems still one of the key point to select/match speakers.
ck1357
個人訊息 會員
203.xxx.xxx.40
2008-10-24 17:00
[#19] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
本人已經有6寸、8寸、12寸喇叭,我覺得要夾機才有好表現,大部份有質素細喇叭都係大食怪,大喇叭就唔選擇時候可以選db高一點,例如91以上用普通機已經ok,相反db低於90以下,就要用前后級的大舊鐵,認同天籟的講法。
play1422
個人訊息 會員
123.xxx.xxx.69
2008-10-24 19:37
[#20] 大喇叭 or 小喇叭易推 D ?    
hi,
I also got 2 ways bookshelf(88) , 3ways floorstander (2 x 6inch,92dB) and 1 x 3 ways (with 12" woofer92dB).

but the bookshelf does not need better amp to drive and the bass is very solid. so , in my own experience, 2 way may not eat many current.

I agree with 天籟 on some extend also. higher damping factor power amp control woofer better. especially in controlling impulse response of the woofer.

For area like you , 150sqfeet, 1 x 6-7inch woofer is definitely enough to fill the room volume. in my own experience, 6-7 inch normal got 87~89dB only, diffcult to find over 90.

my bookshelf match with my china made tube amp (no damping factor info for tube amp) sound pretty good in 200ft area,

when I place in 330ft room, the bass is too weak. when I turn up the loudness and the treble will be too loud.

what I don't agree with c-hing is that large woofer is more diffcult to control as I have hear many horn speaker (12" woofer) match with small power tube amp with very good music. (I know the principle is not the same for tube amp with output transformer and solid state power amp , no dampling factor for tubeamp)

pls correct me if I am wrong.
faileung
個人訊息 會員
221.xxx.xxx.222
2008-10-24 23:56
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