- #1772 [jefftse], 10-08-22 01:09感谢HappyQuad兄诚意相助改909, 有机再请食饭!
- #1773 [happyquad], 10-08-22 07:36Hi Jefftse:不用客氣呀!
除時歡迎名位朋友分享玩機心得.
多多指教Thanks! - #1774 [JCR33], 10-08-22 07:53想請問 happyquad 兄 可聽過用 909 推西敏寺?
- #1775 [happyquad], 10-08-22 08:26Hi JCR33
909 推西敏寺!
未還聽過那處可以聽呀! - #1776 [george1977], 10-08-22 08:47Morning Jack Gor
For a high sensitivity speaker like TANNOY Westminister (99dB), 909's capacbility of outputting 140w per channel and almost 20 Ampere max. current (continuous output at 11 ampere), this amp can make westminster turnaround (overloading IMHO)
Must be an interesting mate! looking forward to hear!
George
最後修改時間: 2010-08-22 08:49:27 - #1777 [JCR33], 10-08-22 08:47我想搵套來推對西敏寺, 曾經用 33+303都不錯, 但是心思思想用新D設計嘅909, 唔知道配對會有問題
- #1778 [george1977], 10-08-22 08:52Jack
Please refer to the following link, probably give you a preliminary insight about matching 909 and TANNOY's speaker (a review about Autograph Mini):
http://www.soundata.fi/hifi/uploads/File/Lehtiartikkelit_ulkomaat/Hi%20Fi%20News%20-%20Autograph%20Mini%20-%20May06.pdf - #1779 [JCR33], 10-08-22 08:57
Morning George,
My new Studio/office in Sydney will be ready soon and I am going to have my Westminsters there, plus other speakers. Apart from using Kondo Gakuoh which is a 300B based push pull monobloc, I am curious to find out if Quad is a better match, as they are both British made. Just like the Quad 57 and 33+303, a perfect match.
:-)
I have heard other Westminster users using Accuphase amps and huge tube amps as shown in the youtube clip...
- #1780 [george1977], 10-08-22 09:03Jack
Should you drive your TANNOY westminister, Accuphse IMHO is a poor match indeed, always tingled with a irremovable cloy of seemingly mellifluous warmth and syrup-like coloration. LUXMAN sounds more natural with more tube-trait and better dynamic resolution.
Sure, QUAD 33+303 combo were designed in order to mact ESL57 electrostatic speaker.
As far as I remember, Kenneth Wilkinson also used 303 (or 50E) to drive TANNOY vintage speakers for monitoring his recordings at analogue heydays!
Wow, you built another room,what a fever audiophile!
George
最後修改時間: 2010-08-22 09:07:39 - #1781 [JCR33], 10-08-22 09:14George,
I still think there is a lot about Quad amps and they are very good with speakers like Rogers and Quad, and I have high expectation from them.
As for another room, I am just so hopeless. I think I suffer from a 3-year-itch, just need a new room to house my toys... :-)
This room is 18 x 27 x 11 ft, took me 3 months for council approval and 10 weeks to build. Doing this kind of thing in Australia is so frustrating and slow. - #1782 [george1977], 10-08-22 09:15Decca Tree and Kenneth Wilkinson
http://www.arsc-audio.org/journals/v18/v18n1-3p4-19.pdf
Decca West Hampstead Mixing & Mastering Studio featuring TANNOY SPEAKER driven by QUAD 50E
最後修改時間: 2010-08-22 09:28:10 - #1783 [george1977], 10-08-22 09:19Jack
Ha... Ha..
There is nothing wrong to be itchy every 3 years, Is the new room bigger than your current one?
Your passion, input and enthusiasm on pure audio made me impressive. Salute! BTW, I saw ClassicalKan after Chankaiming visiting your cosy dwelling, as if visiting a Audio Mecca.
George - #1784 [JCR33], 10-08-22 09:38The room is slightly bigger and more rectangular but without the open ceiling. I try to have it as high as possible, now I have to compromise with 2 level, one is 11.5ft and 9.5ft for half of the area.
Having 11.5ft ceiling height is really good but E & M above false ceiling restricting my dream to have it all at one level. :-( - #1785 [chinaimamn], 10-08-22 15:56Hi JC and George,
I really admire you true "Audiophiles" that you do such long way to fulfil your passion.
In contrast I just make do with my garage by accident(wife forcing my noise out of the house).
I am really looking forwards to seeing your new studio. The other day I checked out some Audionote items for a friend from a dealer and the owner used to work for Kenneth Wilkinson as a sound engineer apprentice. He seems to have many order from Hong Kong as he just shipped a pair of Westminster to Hong Kong. He was surprised as he assumes that living space is mostly too small in Hong Kong to fully utilise the Westminster. He suggests that you need to sit about 18 feet away to experience the true low end. I just laughed and told him that there are many in Hong Kong who could afford to hire a warehouse to furnish into a listening room.
The other night I nearly succeeded in biding a pair of 57 but loosing out in the dying second. Hey ho better luck next time.
JC, what's your opinion of Australia to become republic ?
George, gift is still waiting.
Chi - #1786 [happyquad], 10-08-22 16:23Quad 50E & 303Power-Amp
The Quad 50D & 50E is a 50 watt single channel amplifier designed for broadcast and recording applications .
Photo 1 50E - #1787 [happyquad], 10-08-22 16:36Quad 33Pre 303Power FM3 Tuner:
Photo 2
Living with the Quad 33 pre-amplifier and the Quad 303 power amplifier
The Quad 303 represents a high point in the early epoch of transistor amplifier design. True, it is a single rail design, and therefore relies on an output coupling capacitor; a component that compromises LF performance to some degree. Nevertheless, the design has stood the test of time and still gives an excellent performance; even by today's standards. The Quad 33 pre-amplifier does not enjoy a continued respect and loyal support that its stable-mate the Quad 303 power amplifier enjoys. Firstly, the pre-power combination has far too high a gain for modern digital signal sources and this tends to make the Quad 33 a noisy partner to its relatively silent power-amplifier companion. Furthermore the tone-controls on the Quad 33 (with the exception of the very fine variable-slope LC low-pass filters) are unfashionable and involve some design compromise being based on a high-gain transistor pair amplifier. Having recently bought a Quad 33 and 303 pair, I looked at ways of improving the 33 so that I could continue to use it as the partner to the Quad 303, without having to accept any compromise in performance. The results have wrought an enormous improvement and are given below. I believe therefore, that my experiences may be of interest to any other fans and users of this classic Quad equipment..... - #1788 [george1977], 10-09-02 08:58Quad's new Elite series CDP, Preamp & poweramp:
IC的好處
一般Hi-End 前級總是很少採用IC (Integrated Circuit),一般認為IC的「電子聲」特別重,而且聲音也較薄。而在MBL5011 & 舊款MARK LEVINSON No.28中卻使用許多IC (另外一些德製及日製高級合併機如 Audionet亦有用)
我認為IC最大的好處是可以使許多放人元件的溫度控制在很精確的一個水平上,而這精確溫度的一致性就是好聲的原理之一。那麼為何以前大家普遍認定IC聲音不好呢(即使現在不少SACD唱盤Audio output 放大部份亦然)這主要因為電源供應器 (PSU) 的濾波 (Filtering)及穩壓 (Regulation)線路造得太差。
IC需要的是一個穩定、純淨的電源,電源稍有變動或污染,則IC就會發出差劣的聲音
但小弟覺得舊QUAD的Op-amp IC 前级聲音一點也不薄,反而同現今不少前级,相對較厚暖滑溜!
http://www.audionet.com.tw/doc/view/sn/3408
最後修改時間: 2010-09-02 09:00:42 - #1789 [george1977], 10-09-06 12:37
- #1790 [jefftse], 10-09-08 04:37Capture this from a TW site:
Very true according to my own experience of comparing Quad 909 with other much more expensive amp. It's not the finest but close.
http://audioart.audionet.com.tw/0Review2002/149/Equipment/08.htm
史上足以駕馭IRS-Beta的最廉價組合
Quad 99系列音響組合(909後級最佳推薦)
林及人
我只能以「前所未有的超猛暴力」來描述當時強大動態所帶來的震撼。從鼓棒微弱的輕敲鼓緣,到演出者用盡全身之力猛烈地掄擊,暫態反應之快,鼓點之清晰,鼓聲收尾之利落,讓我彷彿看到了演出者豆大的汗珠,隨著鼓棒的起伏在緊繃的鼓皮上上下彈跳著。
99 CD唱盤●參考售價:44,900元●進口總代理:海國樂器(02-22982688)
原廠公佈規格●頻率響應:20Hz-20KHz(±0.1dB)●訊噪比:大於100dB●總諧波失真:小於0.02%●尺寸:321╳70╳310 mm(寬╳高╳深)●重量:3.3Kg
99前級擴大機●晶體設計●參考售價:49,900元●進口總代理:海國樂器(02-22982688)
原廠公佈規格●輸入靈敏度:100、300、775mV●類比輸入靈敏度(MM/MC):1.3、7.75mV(100、300、775μV)●訊噪比:78dB(A)ref. 7.75mV(775μV)●尺寸:321╳70╳310mm(寬╳高╳深)●重量:3.5Kg
99後級擴大機●立體聲晶體設計●參考售價:36,900元●進口總代理:海國樂器(02-22982688)
原廠公佈規格●輸出功率:88W@8Ω/120W@4Ω(0.5% THD)●最大輸出電流:11A●諧波失真:小於0.05%(70W@8Ω)●唱頭輸入靈敏度:775 mV●頻率響應:3Hz-50KHz(+0dB╱-3dB)●訊噪比:大於110 dB●尺寸:321╳70╳310mm(寬╳高╳深)●重量:5Kg
909後級擴大機●立體聲晶體設計●參考售價:64,900元●進口總代理:海國樂器(02-22982688)
原廠公佈規格●輸出功率:140W@8Ω/250W@4Ω(0.5% THD)●最大輸出電流:11A●總諧波失真:小於0.02%(100W into 8Ω)●唱頭輸入靈敏度:775 mV●頻率響應:13Hz-40KHz(+0dB╱-1dB)●訊噪比:大於108 dB●尺寸:321╳140╳240mm(寬╳高╳深)●重量:12Kg
參考系統╱參考軟體
Denon DCD-S10、mbl CDP-2 CD唱盤,Conrad-Johnson Premier 7B前級,Threshold SA-1後級,Infinity IRS-Beta、ProAc Response 4、Dali 40、Harbeth HL-5、Spendor S3/5喇叭。線材:Onix Grand Master、Real Sound。軟體:絳州大鼓(WMPCD 001)、Burmester CD3、阿姐鼓、Mike Oldfield「AMAROK」(Virgin CDV 2640)、「Face Off」電影原聲帶(Hollywood Records HR-62125-2)、RR HDCD Sampler(RR-S3 CD)、媽媽教我的歌(Mobile Fidelity MFCD 877)、卡山卓威爾森「新月女兒」。
很多事情的發生,是完全出乎人意料之外的。就像是最近出現在筆者家中的這組Quad 99系列音響組合一般,其貌不揚的外表,就算是將CD、99前級和99後級三者堆疊起來,高度還比不上筆者的Conrad-Johnson前級擴大機,更別說是放在單聲道設計的Threshold SA-1身邊了。但體積的大小並不能代表一個產品的真正價值;潛艇級噸位、或者是以散發高熱為最高指導原則的器材,聲音表現也不見得佔有全面的優勢。由於Quad 99與909二部後級擴大機的出現,讓我開始對於這樣的窘境感到面紅耳赤。
難道,這個以生產靜電喇叭與擴大機知名的英國廠家,研發出某種特殊技術讓聲音表現有了重大的突破?還是這兩個貌不驚人的小傢伙具有神功,可以以小搏大,讓一些老大哥們下不了台?
真的那麼神嗎?
我想,現在Quad的工程師應該是在暗自竊喜的,或許是我過去的無知,從來沒有想過小小的99或909後級,以區區88瓦與140瓦的輸出功率(8歐姆下),竟然可以發出如此勇猛的威力,將幾對在過去公認必須用盡全力才踹得動的喇叭,推得虎虎生風(其中包括了Infinity IRS-Beta、ProAc Response 4與Dali 40三款落地喇叭);更令人不解的是,在筆者將909後級與十年前推出的606內部做一比較,除了少數功率晶體與電源部分做了小幅的修正外,絕大部分的零件與線路幾乎完全相同。那麼,為何在過去僅聞ESL-63的威名,頂多再加上Quad獨創的「Current Dumping」技術,卻從未聽說有人曾將405或606後級的驅動力拿來大作文章的?
又一個十年
還是讓我們先來看看這個99系列的一些基本資料好了。99系列這個以「Quad Bus Link」將CD、前級、後級以排插層層相連,利用連動裝置與遙控器執行一切的模式操控,擺明了就是要向消費者宣示他們的基本立場︰我們並不鼓勵玩音響(雖然前級與後級可以獨立出來與其他產品作搭配)。這樣的執著實在令人無法駁斥,但是以這樣的理念所成就出來的產品,其高完成度與高水準的音質,卻也是絕對令人欽佩的。體積小、不佔空間、好擺位,製造品質與售價形成合理的對比,誠信不漫天喊價的作風,無論對於消費者或是製造商,甚至是對音響市場的正面提昇,都有絕對的示範作用。「十年」,似乎是Quad推出新產品的一個不成文的週期,但是看看今日仍然用在Quad後級的「Current Dumping」電路,卻也是25年前所發展出來的老掉牙技術;也正因為老一輩技師們無悔的堅持,才能在今天讓筆者真正了解到Quad擴大機的真正實力。
高超的線路設計
整個99系列的機身都是以鑄鋁打造,Quad工程師別出心裁地將器材工作所產生的熱量,完全導至整個機殼上,散熱面積也因此相當整個機身。99 CD以Philips承盤結構為基礎,使用了Delta Sigma CS4328解碼,設計重點擺在一般低價系統較不會去注意到的訊息讀取與解碼正確性上。99前級除了負責掌控整組系統的運作之外,也提供了一般日系床頭音響所具備的等化功能;此外,品質頗佳的類比唱頭放大線路(包括MM和MC)的設置,更是該前級令人雀躍的另一個主因。以雙互補回授電路(Dual Complimentary Feedback)設計的99後級,輸出功率只靦腆地標到88瓦(8歐姆),袖珍得離譜的體積,怎麼也無法讓人與它的強大推動力畫上等號。
整個系統的焦點,應該放在909這個以獲獎無數的「Current Dumping」線路設計的後級上。基本上,「Current Dumping」主要工作特性是利用演繹出的失真訊號,等量加入擴大機的輸出訊號之中,藉以抵消擴大機所產生的失真,也就是所謂的「Feed Forward Error Correction」。而在工作方式上,則以「低功率高品質擴大機」(A類)與「高功率大電流擴大機」(B類)二種截然不同的模式相互協調運作。在一般工作狀態下,前者主控喇叭音質,當需要強大力道推動喇叭時,才由大功率擴大機接手;據聞,假使「低功率高品質擴大機」部分設計得當,則可使輸出級的失真率降至零,交越偏壓問題也就迎刃而解,同時不需教準,便可達最佳工作狀態。
909內部線路採左右聲道獨立設計,每聲道各用了6顆舊款式的Motorola MJ 15003功率晶體(606則使用了六顆GE/RCA 17556),歐規小晶體用量頗多,電路板Layout工整,製作品質相當高。在電源部分從過去606所使用的EI變壓器,改為大型環形變壓器,四顆濾波電容也由原本的英國BH製品(6800μF)改為9832(15000μF)。訊號輸出用線相當粗壯,整體製作顯得格外用心。
整組99系列(包括909後級)都可以「Quad Bus Link」將CD、前級、後級以排插層層相連,利用連動裝置與遙控器執行一切的模式操控。就算不想玩音響的人,也能在最方便的操作之下達到欣賞音樂的目的。
意外,真的是意外!
其實,如果我不是在當天悶得發慌,相信這篇器材評論的結果,絕對只是中肯得可以。一開始筆者先將家中的喇叭環顧了一番,赫然發現除了Dali之外,竟然清一色都是英國喇叭!心中猜想Harbeth的清甜應該會和Quad形成不錯的搭配吧。嗯,果然沒錯,在充分熱機後,Quad的音樂性豐富、中頻飽滿、高頻原本應該不算飄逸,但卻和HL-5搭得頗具特色;整體的音色溫煦柔和,道地的英國紳士風灑滿了整個空間,這樣的味道,早已了然於心,哪需多花時間嚐試搭配。
「敲敲大鼓吧!」對於來訪朋友的這樣要求,我直覺地感到無味之至,搬著不算輕的99系統接上了Dali 40,從隨手放上Burmester CD3第10軌的中國大鼓後,我的音響惡夢就因此而開始(Dali 40喇叭評鑑,請參閱『音響論壇』第三期)。筆者的Threshold SA-1,在應付ProAc或Dali中高頻的需求上,一直都能達到讓人滿意的成績,但是在低頻的控制力與速度感方面,卻是這個系統中最大的濫觴;再加上速度夠快、控制力強的後級,質感表現總是無法讓人恭維。而當Quad推動著Dali敲出反應迅速、飽滿有力的二聲鼓聲後,我的後級之路頓時充滿了無比的光明︰速度感與暫態反應一流,控制力高超,低頻量感豐沛且沉得夠勁,連續重擊之際絲毫沒有軟腳的現象!或許現在您要大聲質疑了,難道一對當年定價高達美金八千元的Threshold SA-1,竟然敵不過區區台幣六萬四千九的Quad 909?錯了,我們的確搞錯了,不是SA-1在速度感與低頻控制力上不如Quad 909,因為剛才搭配99系列的,不是大哥909後級,而是它的小老弟99!
力拔山河
別說您不相信,這樣的景象也著實讓筆者目瞪口呆了好一陣子!為了向更高的極限挑戰,讓筆者完全忘卻了搬動百餘公斤的Response 4的辛勞,再換上老大哥909後級,各方面的表現也就更上一層樓。不論是99或是909的搭配方式,中國大鼓再生得相當乾淨、紮實,當前級音量調至24處,我只能以「前所未有的超猛暴力」來描述當時強大動態所帶來的震撼。從鼓棒微弱的輕敲鼓緣,到演出者用盡全身之力猛烈地掄擊,暫態反應之快,鼓點之清晰,鼓聲收尾之利落,讓我彷彿看到了演出者豆大的汗珠,隨著鼓棒的起伏在緊繃的鼓皮上上下彈跳著,即使在有心理準備的同時,還是被演出者最後的一聲吶喊嚇得魂飛魄散。當909在重播阿姐鼓的驚人片段時,Response 4的二只9吋低音竟也能再生出地動山搖的澎湃場面;而在「Face Off」第8軌1分40秒左右超低頻現身時,更是聲浪襲人,震得地板直搖。過去曾經進出筆者系統的擴大機包括了Audio Research M300 MKⅡ、Krell KRS-200,以及現役的Threshold SA-1,除了KRS-200在速度感上能與99/909一爭長短之外,其餘的只有望而興嘆的份罷了。在經過如此密集狂亂摧殘之後,Quad除了產生較高偏壓工作才有的溫度之外,保護線路並沒有因此而啟動。
為了證實Quad的物超所值,筆者特地將轉戰轉移至一位使用Infinity IRS-Beta的友人家中進行測試。整套系統依舊以99CD搭配99前級,另外以99後級推Beta的中高音柱,909推低音柱。您相信嗎?這一套系統,可能是有史以來能夠用來駕馭IRS-Beta的最經濟組合了!不跳機、不軟腳、控制力優異、低頻延伸優秀,再看看它全套(包括99與909二部後級)低於二十萬元的定價,您能說它不超值嗎?
實驗性質濃厚的「AMAROK」以電子合成樂貫穿全場,語不驚人死不休的Mike Oldfield在整張CD唯一一首曲子中,加入了多處突如其來的驚爆特殊音效。當您興奮地以它測試府上音響的暫態反應時,請適時調整音量大小,小心別傷了自己最寶貴的金耳朵。(Virgin CDV 2640)
惱人乎?
然而在使用了Quad這套系統之後,您勢必會面臨兩個相當惱人的問題︰第一是會產生不由自主扭大音量的衝動。如果您使用Quad來推動小喇叭,可能就不會碰到這樣的困擾,但是如果不幸您的喇叭也是像ProAc一般大食,還是得請您保重自己的耳朵。第二就是您的喇叭效率越低越好。筆者相信,過去Quad定位之所以受限,最大的原因就是很少人會將它拿去推動低效率喇叭;而通常若能將低效率喇叭的實力徹底發揮出來,音質的表現是差不到哪裡去的。在使用的過程中,筆者發現到,無論我怎樣努力嚐試著讓這部後級向它的性能極限挑戰,它還是不斷的輸出功率,直到聆聽者無法承受才停止。因此,截至目前為止,筆者對它實力的真正極限還是抱持著保留的態度。
它也有溫柔的一面
除去爆棚場面不談,它對小型親切的音樂與大型管弦樂都處理得恰到好處。以RR的HDCD Sampler為例,達拉斯交響樂團演奏顯得生動有趣,整體平衡極佳,開放、清晰、低音部既緊湊又有力。在播放Mobile Fidelity出版的「媽媽教我的歌」時,原本以為小提琴少了一份油光,水分也不夠飽滿,像是壓了點兒嗓子唱出的旋律,沒想到在換上Threshold SA-1之後,竟然也佔不到太大的便宜。SA-1真正勝出的,除了在空間感、活生感、細節訊息量與背景寧靜度上佔了優勢之外,看看相差將近十倍的定價,相信您能理解為什麼Quad的進駐,會讓筆者的心情頓時蕩到谷底的原因了。
經過了反覆考量,筆者決定將909後級慎重地推薦給各位讀者。這樣的結果並不表示整組99系列不夠好,而是整套十三萬元的定價對大多數的消費者來說,絕對不是一項輕鬆的負擔,或許退而求其次選購表現不凡的99後級,或是單買功能齊全的99前級也不失為一個保險的投資。■ - #1791 [tim2010], 10-09-11 17:07在綱上見到了 Quad-1 之真身, 佢現在仍然駁住對 Tannoy 黑頭,羨慕死人啦!
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