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| [#61] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 我亦是剛剛進入聽卡食尼個大海⋯⋯ 以我感覺就應為聽大棚卡食有2大重點⋯⋯ 1）高分析力，由其信源方面 2）聲音既平衡度 滿足到以上2點的話，應該可以過關！ 最後修改時間: 2015-10-31 01:49:46 |
ctscts888 正式會員119.xxx.xxx.215 |
2015-10-31 01:48 | |
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| [#62] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 要聽大棚交響樂唔亂，個人經驗係喇叭同部Amp係最大關鍵，喇叭最好係3路設計或以上，如果唔想先換喇叭，咁部Amp嘅輸出功率，除了正常標示嘅8ohm輸出功率，還有沒有標示係不同負載阻抗下(即4，2，甚至去到1ohm時)的輸出功率呢？如沒有，部Amp係應付複雜龐大音樂時(要處理嘅頻率比較廣闊時，喇叭阻抗會變化好大)，能否輸出足夠及線性功率(電流)俾對喇叭，就有好大保留 就算部Amp有標示，輸出嘅功率數據都必須係當輸出負載阻抗下降到一半時，輸出功率可以比之前嘅阻抗提升1倍 之前有位師兄提到用緊金仔A70聽大棚嘢冇問題，睇睇呢部Amp係不同負載阻抗時佢嘅輸出功率數字，就會明白了 |
ccli1996 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.20 |
2015-10-31 08:16 |
| [#63] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 Hello James, Based on the room dimensions you have set out, you would only be able to get a distant perspective of a concert hall performance of a large orchestra. Notwithstanding that, I think you should be able to achieve: 1. a wall to wall soundstage, 2. a holographic portrayal of 3 layers of players in a large symphonic piece, namely, strings, winds, percussion/chorus. As regards 2, the localization of players should be: string players in front of or at least at plane of speakers (not a metre or more behind them), brass in 3D behind the strings and percussion/ chorus in front of or at rear wall. Please note: The sound splashes on you, the listener. See if this is the sound you like or HATE! I do not have credentials, thus few readers listen to what I say. You keep on trying suggestions from "experts" and if you are able to achieve the type of sound you want, congratulations. If not, and you want the splashy sound I mentioned above, get back to me in 6 months, by which time I hope the new DAC I have been waiting for should be in my hand, and I would be able to bring over the retired gear I am now using to your place and show you how to achieve the very forward type of sound if you fancy it. |
momei 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.82 |
2015-10-31 09:51 |
| [#64] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 Suggest u not to complicate things. Just sit close to the speaker at lower volume. Then turn up a bit to test. If at lower level, things are not messy but messy when turning up, it is the room and your sitting position. |
BenYC 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.120 |
2015-10-31 17:43 |
| [#65] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 師兄VA Finn唔錯的，考慮一下換夠力的Amp 吧。我音響房地方二百幾三百呎樓下，Parifal Ovation 不會比Finn 易推。反而比較300W Krell 及 60W 的 金仔 A70,爆棚時分別沒有想像中咁大，大家同為甲類亦可推動低至1 Ohm. 最後修改時間: 2015-10-31 18:57:36 |
paulpoon168 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.90 |
2015-10-31 18:57 |
| [#66] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 #57 (6) 如果都係甘樣, 先唔理擺位/空間的問題, 似乎是不外是CDP, AMP, 又或喇叭三者中其中一之一個有問題. 暫時不說喇叭, 因為喇叭涉足的問題好大. 簡單少少 問朋友借另一台amp, 用CDP 直入amp再出喇叭看看. 因為AMP一唔同, 聲一定有出入. 我又記得你前文講過如果是電腦file -＞ CAS-＞ AMP 是聲音清的話, 甘CD機都有D關事. CD機內置的解碼會不會有問題? 然而如果CDP -＞ DAC-＞ AMP 都是一樣亂, 甘的話似是CDP 本身都有D問題. 也就是...有沒有可能CD / AMP 兩者之中其中抽換其中一樣看看? |
kl122002 正式會員 119.xxx.xxx.146 |
2015-10-31 21:48 |
| [#67] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 各位師兄，再次多謝經驗分享，實在是感激和學咗好多野。。。 #64, Ben YC Ching, yes, I did follow your suggestion and standing very close (even just about 20 cm) in front of the speakers at lower volume... I got lesser feeling about the music, but the sound is comparably clearer... then turned up a bit further at the same standing location , it is comparably better sound than the usual listening seat. I believed this is what you mentioned that it should be the room and the sitting position issue. Nonetheless, this room issue still got me another long way to settle as I have been trying the room issue for quite sometime before... as the room dimension is the most tough issue for me to change or work around !!!! Anyway way,thanks a lot for the advice, at least now I got a helpful clue to focus next...thanks again. 另外剛和二位非常熱心的師兄見了面，一個指教了一些調位經驗，另一位指教了避震的一些經驗。實在學到野的。 現在就先一步步慢慢的試下 一啲啲再想辦法調下位 和 试吓避震野，因這對Finn 喇叭脚钉之前係直放在大里石地板上的，但出来的聲會有小小沙粒感，後就加木板在脚钉下面，最後要再加一塊小carpet 在脚钉與木板之間， 喇叭出来的聲才不會有沙粒感，估計應該係 carpet 吸咗小小出沙粒的频段。。。 所以喇叭的避震也是要再睇吓再改善的。。 多谢哂。。 最後修改時間: 2015-11-02 00:25:01 |
jamesckm 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.111 |
2015-11-02 00:01 |
| [#68] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 釘腳加釘墊應該會較好。 |
koalaau 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.101 |
2015-11-02 00:19 |
| [#69] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 Glad to know you have r33 friends coming over. It is the beginning of a long journey my friend. I am sure everything will alter something, and it's going to confuse you for quite some time. As said, improve the most fundamental thing first. But what is fundamental is also controversial :) 1. I asked what cones you are using, and it turns out you put the spike directly onto the marble. You later added wood. But if you want cheaper but perhaps better version. Consider using COINS. Yes, just coins. Your speakers aren't the heaviest, but heavy enough to use just coins. 10 cents, 20 cents, 50 cents, and in some cases 1 dollars. Just put under the spikes to get a stable and leveled speakers. Many high hands just use coins to placed between speaker spikes and marble floor (I followed their advice and tried before too, with very good effect). 2. OR, try this: http://herbiesaudiolab.net/spkrfeet.htm It's cheap and efficient for MOVING SPEAKERS easily for experiments. It does good to me (I am using the stud gilder). Some c hing use Soundcare spike, also movable, but for either case measure your spike diameter and order / buy the appropriate ones. Vibration can be a vital killer so good control of them is also necessary (unless you use extremely heavy speakers). 3. BenYC hing suggestion is very very good. Actually you may even try listening ONLY TO ONE CHANNEL AT A TIME. USE PILLOWS TO BLOCK THE AREAS AROUND YOUR EARS and listen to how one speaker deliver orchestral work. Listening to single speakers give you a even better position to see how one speaker can play clean music without the interference of the other speakers, placed wrongly, or other room effects. Turn up the volume slowly and see if the sound can keep clean at reasonable volume. Beyond a certain volume, the limitations of the amp may come into play stronger. It's also possible the amp at some point may be not powerful enough to deliver clear stronger noise. (if you have a good headphone system you could now compare what you hear to the headphone and have a better position to judge; the headphone can tell you how the orchestra should sound like). It's very understandable if the above is true that you may look borrow / buy 2nd hand more powerful amp known to be driving Finn well (check forum but be aware of bluffing). Really my additional sharing. Hope its food for thought for you and good luck. 最後修改時間: 2015-11-02 00:52:49 |
zbigniew821 正式會員 116.xxx.xxx.251 |
2015-11-02 00:51 |
| [#70] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 Understood you have to place your speaker at the narrow side of the living room. A good place to start in experimenting sitting position is 1 to 1.5 times the distance between the speakers. For instance, if your speaker is 6 feet apart, can try to sit somewhere 6-9 feet away. If possible, of coz, best is to move the speakers away from back wall as much as you can (but need to watch out if bass gets reduced too much). If the sound bounced a lot and get all messy in higher volume, another thing you can do is to add more stuff into the room. Contrary to what people usually say, unless a room is very symetrical, it is usually easier to get reasoable sound in a room full of furniture than an empty room. Finally, as much as I know lots of things can add or tweak... better don't do anything before you get a general idea about the positioning of the speaker and seat. The fundamental problem has to be solved first instead of adding more variables that may actually means introducing more problems to cover up exisiting problems. Happy listening. 最後修改時間: 2015-11-02 02:06:56 |
BenYC 正式會員 1.xxx.xxx.85 |
2015-11-02 02:01 |
| [#71] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 BenYC reminds me something. I remember a long time ago I downloaded a pic from a c hing. I never visited this place but 1. It's messy. I agree with BenYC. Your pic doesn't tell us what you have besides diffusors or absorbers and we don't know what diffusors / others stuff and what sizes you are actually using. For professional products, they have to used a lot to achieve good result. If you're just using a piece here and there. The effects may be less effective than the pic shown here. I have a lot of books and decorations so my home is no less messy (in an orderly way) than this pic. 2. Chaos caused by primarily two things if room is the culprit (not to mention speaker positioning). Too orderly and too spacious the room. Too many reflection. Although I understand you may think you have already installed some tools, without the real pics we are unable to judge :) 3. The pic also shows the owner use smaller speakers. That should be the next experiment when room and speaker fine-tuning fails. 4. The pic owner also use move out the speakers further away from the 'smaller area'. It's no harm done if you try moving out to the larger area. Just to see if the sound is cleaner a bit. Good luck!  |
zbigniew821 正式會員 116.xxx.xxx.251 |
2015-11-02 03:03 |
| [#72] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 Actually, Zbigniew821 gave lots of valuable advices already. I would say going along his way should be on this right track. If your diffuser and absorber are not mounted to wall, suggest you take them all off and add them on one by one to get best effect you prefer. (I did not pay attention to your sketch before. Now that I have, I am a bit puzzled why you have diffuser and absorber along the same wall. The first thing I may experiment is to put a blanket to cover the 2 diffusers besides the speakers. My gut feeling is they should not be there.) |
BenYC 正式會員 58.xxx.xxx.25 |
2015-11-02 12:41 |
| [#73] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 Thanks Benyc hing. a small trick Since your area is relatively short, perhaps you may try, at least for once, the effect of full toe-in. It will 1. Have the sharpest image 2. Keep side reflections to minimum though not completely eliminating them It's hard to judge whether you have achieved full toe-in by 'measuring' angels. One small trick is: 1. Use blu-tac to attach a wire or small rope at the top of the speaker, right above the tweeter. The length of the rope should be a bit longer than the listening distance. (see the pic, but i haven't use the blu-tac; you should know how to do it though). 2. Placed a ruler above the speaker, perpendicular to the speaker top. Use the measurement grid to do this. Left a few inches of the ruler off the top. 3. when you sit in the king seat, pull the rope straight from the speaker top to your ears. If the speakers are not in full toe in, the rope will stay away from the ruler. If full toe-in, the rope will in perfect alignment with the ruler. If over-toe in, you know what happened. 4. People normally advise people to start from non-toe in. But in your case a full toe in may give insight. You could increasingly toe out and see how it affects the image. Move very little (just 0.1 - 0.2 cm) at a time for both speakers - I just have a feeling in your case a small increment or decrease in toe-in affect a lot. I may be wrong. If so, toe out more. 5. With the glider / soundcare spike the above is much easier to achieve. Pic one shows full toe in  |
zbigniew821 正式會員 116.xxx.xxx.251 |
2015-11-02 18:36 |
| [#74] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 Perhaps a 4 degree toe out. The rope must be above the center of the tweeter :)  |
zbigniew821 正式會員 116.xxx.xxx.251 |
2015-11-02 18:37 |
| [#75] 請教改善聽大棚的交嚮樂的經驗 各位師兄，再次多謝經驗分享，建議。。. Thanks Ben YC Ching for the advice again. and also appreciated Zbigniew821 Ching for the very informative and detail information. These would be very helpful. thanks. The simple one test has been done, which was to listen ONLY ONE CHANNEL AT A TIME with the use of a dummy 8 Ohm resistor as the loading swapped and installed at the amp's output channel for each time testing etc.. one channel output would be comparably felt a bit lesser db , a slightly dry , and lesser instruments feel monotonous ... in term of the messy sound issue, one speaker delivered a subtle clearer performance than 2 channels due to lesser instrument feel and lesser db etc.... To this extent for the time being that standing closer to the speaker (as mentioned even 20 cm in front of the speaker) is still the prefernce feeling etc..... In fact, the other suggestions are new to me, and will post the results once the experiements will be done though ... MAny Many thnaks again for the advice. 最後修改時間: 2015-11-03 01:07:49 |
jamesckm 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.210 |
2015-11-03 01:04 |
