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| [#2743] ECC83 Powercord, Gingers has knidly shown us my recommended old Mullard M8137 or CV4004 tubes. When you see any of these, only go for the made in Gt. Britain, not made in Great britain Get the early ones if you can. They will give you the biggest surprise over the more expensive Mullard long plate or TKN 803s when you are using QUAD 22 or Matisse pre-amp. |
dkyyu 正式會員218.xxx.xxx.36 |
2007-02-20 14:40 | |
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| [#2744] ECC83 Gingers, My Siemens type is the long plate 17mm with 2 side holes, not quite the same as the ones on the link. |
limage 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.246 |
2007-02-20 14:57 |
| [#2745] ECC83 my collection is ready to knock down everyone else!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------- limage, I'm afraid you might be knocking at sumos. I was told there is a R33 member with a dozen shoeboxes of M8137. I have tried almost everything on CJ and found it at its best with Brimar CV4004. They are made for each other. |
cpsjj 正式會員 195.xxx.xxx.65 |
2007-02-20 15:16 |
| [#2746] ECC83 Yes CP, I am just trying to cox him out if he is watching!  |
limage 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.246 |
2007-02-20 15:21 |
| [#2747] ECC83 It is a lonely Brimar 12ax7 :-( With square getter :-)  |
Gingers 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.243 |
2007-02-20 15:47 |
| [#2748] M8137 Dear Limage, Seems like you are also the owner of old logo Mullard M8137. With date code RL, yours probably the production in 60s. I hope timtube can tell us more about the production data. How would you rate it? |
dkyyu 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.36 |
2007-02-20 15:57 |
| [#2749] ECC83 Kung Hei Fat Choi to you all. Looking forward to meeting you in our Quad's party. Best Regards Allan |
Allan 正式會員 202.xxx.xxx.35 |
2007-02-20 16:04 |
| [#2750] ECC83 from a heavy weight collector :-)  |
Gingers 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.243 |
2007-02-20 16:11 |
| [#2751] ECC83 http://www.hktubeaudio.homestead.com/tube.html Battle of 12AX7 We just completed another tube and hifi shoot-out tonight at my apartment. The main event is the "Battle of 12AX7" which is something I have tried to organise for the last two months or so. The objective is simply to try to find out what is the best of the best 12AX7. Beside this battle, we have also compared the Proceed CDD transport vs. the Sony DVP-S7000 + Theta TLC, and the ARC LS7 pre-amp with the Matisse Fantasy Line Mk I. Both Proceed CDD and Matisse are from leehc. We are also jointed by Mak, VH, Wilson, Andy Kong and Alan. The last two left just after the hardware comparison and before we start the tube shoot-out. First we have is the comparison between the Proceed CDD and Sony DVP-S7000+Theta TLC. This is just to confirm what we have been saying for a long time. The Result? Of course, the Proceed won. But I did not really expect by so much margin. The Proceed is just far more musical and squeezing out far more information from the CD compare to the S7000+TLC. The Matisse also proved superior to the LS7, but I have to tell you that the Matisse won with the help of no less than HK$4k worth of Telefunken 801S and Tungsram ECC83 silver pin tubes + HK$1k worth of MIT Z-cord. And the ARC LS7 is equipped with the stock Sovtek 6922 and of course, original power cord. But the LS7 response much less to tube change compare to the Matisse and I am very sure the result will be much the same even with all Sovtek 6922 replaced by Siemens CCa. The reason why it took so long for us to organise the Battle of 12AX7 is because we want to compare the best of the best 12AX7 even produced, and these tubes are both extremely expensive and very difficult to find. Particular the Telefunken 803S, which is selling for around HK2,600 each in the market these days. Secondly, with the tiring experience of testing 16 6DJ8 last time. We have a number to informal qualifying rounds to pick out a number of weaker candidates first. The final line-up for the battle are : From leehc Tungsram ECC83 silver pin From Wilson Mullard ECC83 long "dark gray" plate/square getter Mullard M8137 circle getter/double support/toast plate From VH Telefunken ECC803S double support/clear glass Amperex Bugle Boy ECC83 long plate/square getter From me Mullard 10M Master Series 12AX7 Brimar CV4004 long black plate/square getter Noticeable tubes that have been eliminated in the qualifying matches are Telefunken ECC83 ribbed plate, Mullard ECC83 long "light gray" plate/square getter, Mullard M8137 big circle getter/single support/toast plate, Raytheon 7729, Mullard 7025, GEC CV492, Brimar CV492, GE 5-star 5751WA black plate and WE 5755/420A. I believe the only noticeable omission is the Gold Lion B759. But this tube is so rare and expensive that it is quite irrelevant. We will compare it to the winner if some of us find it some days. We used leehc’s Matisse Fantasy Mk1 as battle platform with following setup : Speakers – KEF LS3/5a Piano Power Amp – 2 x Audion Sterling EL34 Single Ended in mono configuration CD – Proceed CDD + Adcom GDA600 + WE 93F Test software were the usual gold Naum Starkman Chopin, Café Blue and David Oistrakh Vol 3. We used the same blind testing and score system we used last time with the 6DJ8 battle and again, the aim is for each judge to rank all 7 tubes and compare all the ranking score to find the top winner. And the result? Well, I think this time we have a clear winner, which is the Mullard 10M Master Series 12AX7. Perhaps a short history about this tube first. The 10M Series is a special selected type of , I believe, early 70’s Mullard, which is "aged", tested and then plated its pins with gold. The structure of the 10M 12AX7 is the same as the Mullard yellow label short plate 12AX7. But the sound is so very different. Each of this tube is guaranteed for 10,000 hours of usage i.e. the name 10M. It is quite rare and the street price in Hong Kong should be around the same as the Telefunken 803S. I think the 10M won by giving the most all-round sonic performance and, perhaps more importantly, the most musical sound of all. The 1st runner-up, closely behind, is the famous Telefunken ECC803S, and this is the double getter support/clear glass version, which is generally believe to be the best version of all Telefunken 803S. This tube actually scored very high on most aspect, in particular the transience of music. But it lost out to the 10M in terms of musicality. What I feel is that the 803S tried so hard to get everything right and being the most "hifi" that it tend to communicate less of its music content compare to the 10M, which is simply more please to the ear. Another noticeable performer, which came third overall, is the Mullard M8137. Like all M8137, it gives unbelievable bass and punch, and this particular version of M8137 is far smoother than all the other M8137 versions which make it so special. Since I happen to own the winning tube, I should perhaps stop here and let the others comment on the result. Another great tube evening. At the end, we all wonder what tube should we put to battle next time. Any suggestion, guys? Creevy’s reply : Last year I can remember that I have conducted a 12AX7 match with my friends. We drink the Cheateu 1983 and smoke our beloved Romeo Y Julita Churchill cigars besides listening to the music. Here are the system that we have used: Matisse Reference preamp (Mullard narrow waist CV 455 as the 12AT7) Cary 801 ( W.E.300B date code 052, Amperex 211 & RCA red base 5691) Technics SP10 Mark II turntable(Serial V tonearm & Koetsu cart.) Tannoy Black 15' coaxial monitor We have tested the following tubes also Mullard long plate ECC83 (single getter support, double getter support, square getter of black and grey plate) Mullard toast plate CV4004 (retangular getter, circular getter double support & large getter) Mullard 10M 12AX7 (factory matched). Telefunken ECC803s, ribbed & smooth plate ECC83 Amperex ECC83 long plate D getter with its famous MUSICAL sign Brimar CV492 with black plate and retangular getter Siemen three micas E83CC ( claims to be the TFK ECC803 version ) Gold Lion B759 CBS gold pins 7729 G.E. 5751 with 5 stars We all feel that this match is absolutely exhausting, and there are different outcome. I cannot remember all the details but I still can quote partly of my preference: 1.Mullard toast plate retangular getter CV4004/6057 2.Mullard long black plate CV492 3.Amperex long plate D getter with factory code marked on the base of the tube. I cannot remember the ranking of other but I am sure that the Gold Lion B759 and Mullard 1OM rank very low. Actually I hope to make this test to be double blinded but still failed at last. Anyway, I have recently purchased some interesting ECC83 below a＞Mullard CV492 long plate with D getter (though amperex but with factory code printed on the base of the tube) d＞Mullard BBC selected CV4004/6057 toast plate with retangular getter c＞Brimar CV492 with black plate and retangular getter PLUS the DIAMOND logo d＞Brimar Laboratory sample 6057 I am sure that these tubes must absolutely be competitive and will let you know for our result Happy listening  |
Gingers 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.243 |
2007-02-20 16:13 |
| [#2752] ECC83 Dear Gingers, We did not take part in Timtube's X7 match. It was only three of us, that was me, HC Lee and Edmund who wished to make an attempt to find out the best sounding X7 for my QUAD 22 and Lee's Matisse reference pre-amp (yes, Ah Lee has upgraded from Fantacy to ref) in 2005. We tried the following X7 tubes on Matisse's line part: - Tungsram ECC83 silver pin - Mullard ECC83 long plate - Mullard M8137 (the one as shown in your photo) - Telefunken ECC803S (oil logo) I also separately compare the Telefunken rib plate with dynaco logo) with CV4004. It was the cheapest Mullard CV4004 who impressed us most and the only tube in the test we'd found giving the most natural balance and ambience presented in music. The CV4004 we tried has an earlier date code. I can;t remember exactly. |
dkyyu 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.36 |
2007-02-20 17:23 |
| [#2753] ECC83 Dear Gingers and Powercord, We knew the 803s (chalk logo) and 10M are best. The reason I recommend Mullard CV4004 is that they are still considered affordable in these days. A decent one in second hand market costs you $500 to $800, that is only a fraction, say one eighth of 803s or 10M. The sound is almost as good as the expensive ones (to me they sound the same) if you don't mind using the cheap stuff. |
dkyyu 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.36 |
2007-02-20 17:32 |
| [#2754] ProAC Dear Patrick and Hon, Please check someone who's letting go a ProAc 1SC [黑檀木] in the second hand market. |
jcml 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.127 |
2007-02-20 22:16 |
| [#2755] ProAC In money terms and accessibility, I would strongly recommend Brimar CV492 as a compromise. They are not that diffiuclt to find and worth only several hundred HK$ each. Personally, I would say CV492 is much better than TFK ECC83 smooth or ribbed plates in mids. Just my two cents |
j_l 正式會員 222.xxx.xxx.154 |
2007-02-20 22:28 |
| [#2756] ProAC John jcml Thanks for the tip about the Proac Response 1sc. We like these speakers very much when Patrick and I listened to them in the showroom driven by a transistor Naim Nait 5 amp. The midrange is very much like a pair of electrostatic. The bass is ultimately limited. I have contacted the seller to find out more about the speakers. Hon |
hifienthusiast 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.4 |
2007-02-21 08:19 |
| [#2757] ProAC Proac Response 1sc -------------------- Hon......Please let me know if you are ready to listen/buy the 2nd hand ProAc 1sc. I want to ask my friend to help inspect the speaker to ensure it's in good condition. ProAc 1sc is the only box speaker I prefer if I can't have any ESL. The sound quality is so near a pair of ESL, I thought I was listening the ESL 57 when the 1sc was playing in front of it. It is a very honest and natural speaker. No colouration. I wouldn't mind to own one. Regds Patrick |
Pcs100 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.161 |
2007-02-21 13:04 |
| [#2758] QUAD ESL Speakers Dennis May I invite your pair of Quad II to meet my pair? John |
Gingers 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.177 |
2007-02-21 18:46 |
| [#2759] QUAD ESL Speakers Sure, Gingers, my pleasure. Surely a QUAD family gathering. I am going to borrow another QUAD 22 preamp later this week to find out whether the pre or power amp giving me the dull sound. |
dkyyu 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.217 |
2007-02-21 22:40 |
| [#2760] QUAD ESL Speakers Dennis 你應該嘗試用另一架前級來推 Quad II. 我以前曾月過一個 Audio Research LS7 或無源前級來推 Quad II 與 LS3/5a, 鼓G亦不錯. 總括來說Quad 22 前級的藄筋O比較暗一點. 用無源前級來推 Quad II, 藄聒鷁M是淡一點, 但總比Quad 22 好. Linn Linto 的 gain 應可以接受. 若我有時間在港及你能夠找到那一對 Jones plugs, 可以替你造二個Jones 去 RCA 插頭 adaptors. 希望你早日可以找到理想的聲音. Hon |
hifienthusiast 正式會員 220.xxx.xxx.152 |
2007-02-22 02:40 |
| [#2761] QUAD ESL Speakers gingers, i have a pair of quad II and quad 22 combo brought from england through c.p. and the gears were serviced by quad in england in about july,2006 before delivered to c.p. the volume switch was replaced with a new one from quad by c.p. except that i believe my set is quite original. i do not mind lending my set for you brothers for audition. if you are interested, please let me know. david wong |
davwong 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.183 |
2007-02-22 12:49 |
| [#2762] QUAD ESL Speakers Hon, Do you have a evening free? What about tomorrow evening, or Sunday evening? I'll be pleased to pick you up at Choi Hung MTR or other places convenient to you. Ivan |
limage 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.124 |
2007-02-22 15:38 |
