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| [#2903] ESL63 I'll be back in August. Can I listen to the ESL63? ---------------------------------------- Dear Hon......Sure! of course! You are most welcome. I am sure everything will be in good track as far as tonal quality is concerned by then. Since this ESL63 is now the common property of our "Quad ESL" thread, please contact our Adimistrator CP to ensure availability in August for your audition. ESL57 and ESL63 are somewhat different animal to me. Some of the common musical charaters are perhaps the transparence and the capability of reproducing extreme detailed and very unique sound; which a traditional cone speakers can't even come close. The major differences between is mid range and sound stage, which ESL57 are way better. For the ESL63, the sound of male volcalist is more smooth than female volcalist. However, the momentum is way better than the ESL57. However, since all the above have something to do with speaker placement and sound acourstic treatments etc. , it may improve later after the right spot of treatment is found. Will update you forks. Regds Patrick |
Pcs100 正式會員219.xxx.xxx.182 |
2007-03-10 09:49 | |
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| [#2904] ESL63 particularly in bass and loudness? ----------------------------- Hi Richard......Thanks for your opinion. We don't have problem in bass and loudness so far. The ESL63 can play very loud and the bass is plentiful. However, The nature of bass may not be your favorite. It is soft and deep rather than punchy. I may still need to tighten the mylar a bit in the bass penal. The only problem now is the drum beating, which I doubt very much if this type of speaker design can reproduce. Other than that, the sound of musical instructment is crystal clear and transparant. I look forward to Feikeung's experienced ears to see which improvement should be made. Regds |
Pcs100 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.182 |
2007-03-10 10:07 |
| [#2905] ESL63 天下弟一鼓 may not truely reflect the sort of requirments, likewise Tsoi Chin's 渡口, etc. ______________________________________________________________________________________ There shall not be a certain type of music that a speaker could not play, only better or worse. The 57 can play the 天下弟一鼓, may not be the best in the world but one would at least expect the 63 to play better. For the moment the 63 cannot play the 天下弟一鼓 even at low volume, most likely caused by the faulty original treble panel which has not been repaired yet so we cannot compare. We are comparing the 63 basically to the 57. A not as smooth midrange is forgiveable as it was generally said so, but the strengths of the 63 are it can play much louder, better bass due to the larger area of the bass panels and better soundstage and imaging due to the pseudo-point source arrangement. These are the attributes we are reasonably looking for. Condefly has one channel in "normal" condition that we can also compare. Is there an official standard? Due to its vintage nature, I wonder whether there is one; and I doubt whether there exist one, say, for vintage Tannoy. |
cpsjj 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.252 |
2007-03-10 10:09 |
| [#2906] ESL63 most likely caused by the faulty original treble panel which has not been repaired yet so we cannot compare. --------------------------------------- I think so, CP. I have made another treble penal using Allen's stuff. Will replace the faulty original panel to see if it improves. Regds |
Pcs100 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.182 |
2007-03-10 10:19 |
| [#2907] ESL63 Read through page 1 of this thread, I found the interesting encounter between Dennis and Patrick, as well other guys. Patrick's first response... "Hi Dennis, Gingers, rcwy , Tim and all brothers…..I just happen to browse around the Web tonight and found the discussion you folks had about the Quad ESL57. It was very interesting and I am surprised so many knowledgeable people about Quad ESL in HK. I think I am that guy living in Tseung Kwan O “nicknick” mentioned about. I am glad now you had your ESL57 fixed and all the problems resolved. Nicknick was right. I do had some repair experience on Quad ESL57. I used to own a pair of double quad made by Radio People in Kowloon. 2 of the bass panel had no sound when I acquired them from an English gentleman. After dismantled, I found the mylar was badly torn due to aging. I went thru all the trouble obtaining the right material and making special tools for the repairing. The most difficult part was the mounting of the mylar and the applying of the conductive material. Anyway, it was quite an experience. Nice talking to you folks. Hope to meet you and have music listening session with you some day (with Quad ESL57, of course). Patrick pcs100@netviagtor.com" R33 makes the world small. |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2007-03-10 10:32 |
| [#2908] ESL63 "Is there an official standard? Due to its vintage nature, I wonder whether there is one; and I doubt whether there exist one, say, for vintage Tannoy." I do believe at least Tannoy has official standards to meet before it was released to the market. |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2007-03-10 10:34 |
| [#2909] ESL63 I think "天下弟一鼓" should be "天下第一鼓" |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2007-03-10 10:36 |
| [#2910] ESL63 However, The nature of bass may not be your favorite. It is soft and deep rather than punchy. I may still need to tighten the mylar a bit in the bass penal. ------------------------------- Patrick, The degree of tightness of the mylar must reflect the OFFICIAL factory standard. Find this out to save your effort in the next step. :) |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2007-03-10 10:46 |
| [#2911] ESL63 The degree of tightness of the mylar must reflect the OFFICIAL factory standard __________________________________________________________________________________________ I'm not a believer of that. As long as the tension is within the tolerance, which shall be quite large, it shall be ok. We are not talking about the natural frequency of the film which is determined by the tension. The sound is generated by the frequency of change of the electrostatic field which is a forced vibration. Most people mistake that it is like hitting a drum. Rather than considering the effect of the tension on the natural frequency, the higher the tension, the higher the stiffness and the more difficult the speaker is to be driven. If the official factory standard refers to sensitivity, frequency response etc., yes, they are all in place. |
cpsjj 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.252 |
2007-03-10 10:57 |
| [#2912] ESL63 "As long as the tension is within the tolerance, which shall be quite large, it shall be ok." CP - "Toleration" is already a STANDARD, right? |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2007-03-10 11:03 |
| [#2913] ESL63 Seems arguments have to be taken to the definition of words rather than in a broader sense. There are things that can be taken so loose that you can just ignore by applying common sense. |
cpsjj 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.252 |
2007-03-10 11:14 |
| [#2914] Electrostatic loudpspeakers WHY not 魚蝦蟹葫蘆金錢雞 :-)  |
Gingers 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.9 |
2007-03-10 11:33 |
| [#2915] ESL63 It is wise to invite experienced ears to listen before you decide the action forward. ------------------------------------------ Patrick I think you still need torn paper ears like me to join the party :-) A stupid suggestion. John |
Gingers 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.9 |
2007-03-10 11:42 |
| [#2916] Electrostatic loudpspeakers Gingers, "魚蝦蟹葫蘆金錢雞" is said when one is angry. :) |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2007-03-10 11:42 |
| [#2917] ESL63 If ESL 57 can play the drum piece, there is no reason why the 63 cannot. I believe the mylar film of the bass section is not tight enough thereby encouraging a level of displacement beyond the control provided merely by the electrostatic field. If the tension over the mylar can be gauged, we should be able to establish a repeatable standard by trial and error alone, even without the factory specification. |
limage 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.118 |
2007-03-10 11:43 |
| [#2918] ESL63 gingers, I like your idea of 魚蝦蟹葫蘆金錢雞, and the painting down below amended accordingly. |
limage 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.118 |
2007-03-10 11:48 |
| [#2919] ESL63 thereby encouraging a level of displacement beyond the control provided merely by the electrostatic field _________________________________________________________________________________ limage, I still do not believe this is the case as this is not the symptom we have observed. There is no arcing in the bass panels but in the bass ring of the treble panel. I tend to believe that the bass will be ok once the treble panel is fixed. I'd rather give more thought to the loudness of the bass once the arcing problem is over and we can continue with the test. The 63 has stepped up the voltages both in the stators and the diaphragm which must mean the purpose is to increase the air gap so as to increase the travel of the diaphragm. This is the most significant factor of loudness. If the diaphragm is too tight, it will not be able to make the throw. |
cpsjj 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.252 |
2007-03-10 12:05 |
| [#2920] ESL63 Good Day to all! Dear Patrick, I guess it's the problem of the diaphragm tension together with the source (Radio Shack CD player). I have seen someone to use a box of beers to stretch the diaphragm before on the web. Still finding... Torn paper ears such as Gingers and our respected Limage are sure a must to help tuning. |
jcml 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.177 |
2007-03-10 12:24 |
| [#2921] ESL63 As far as I remember, and I just confirmed with Patrick, the film is already tighter than the original panels, by the feel of a finger. I'll rather they slack a little to achieve the loudness, but for the moment it shouldn't be a problem until we can really try with the arcing fixed. The arcing has drawn all the current. |
cpsjj 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.252 |
2007-03-10 12:41 |
| [#2922] ESL63 Dear all, I have some thoughts on the distortion and wish to join the discssion. 1) Only one panel suffering this problem, 2) the distortion came when playing 鬼太鼓 at very low sound level. 3) distortion came like 沙沙sounds 4) no clue where the distortion came from yet, could be the treble or bass panel I have reservation on the supsected problem arising from the argumentative diapham tightness and I tend to favour CP's suggestion to change the treble panel for further monitoring. Patrick, just for your consideration please. |
dkyyu 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.23 |
2007-03-10 13:45 |
