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| [#342] QUAD ESL The Quad ESL (Electrostatic Loudspeaker) was introduced in 1956. It was a truly amazing speaker for the time, and is still a product to be reckoned with today. Dubbed "Walkers Wonder" after Peter Walker, head of Quad and designer. Many people, myself included, believe that it is the most faithful and natural midrange transducer ever made. At the frequency extremes, it also holds up well, the treble is never spitty or tizzy. The bass is fast and clean without ever being boomy, it only goes down to about 40 Hz, so the bottom octave is missing. Production of the original ESL stopped in 1981 shortly after the introduction of the newer (and different although not necessarily better) ESL63. Over the 25 year production run, approximately 60,000 speakers were made. But the Quads also have some downsides. First, they are fragile. They need about 15 Watts of the best amplification you can get your hands on (see the Heathkit UA-2 EL84 (6BQ5) or Fisher SA-16 amps). If you use a larger amplifier or try to overdrive the speakers, you risk arcing. Arcing occurs when the potential across the stator panels is sufficient to ionize the air and spark across the gap and through the membrane. Arcing will ruin the panels, if it occurs enough times or is severe. The Quads will play up to about 100 dB, which is much louder than I play music even when playing loudly. The second downside is that they are a difficult load for the amplifier to drive. They are highly reactive loads (primarily capacitive). Their impedance drops as the frequency increases. This makes the Quad ESL a bad choice for single ended tube (SET) amplifiers. http://www.quadesl.com/quad_main.shtml ----------------------------------------- Thanks for Patrick's hospitality, and also the coffee by Patrick's CEO. The cofee is the best I have never tastes before. Patrick's esl speaker is the best esl I experienced :-)  |
Gingers 正式會員221.xxx.xxx.132 |
2006-03-01 19:22 | |
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| [#343] QUAD ESL I witnessed Patrick's miracle yesterday. A pair of 35"x31" speakers raised by 17" from ground producing sweet, clear, life-like sound with razor-sharp image in a room no larger than 60 sq.ft. The Quad ESL57 is driven by Audible Illusion preamp, Quicksilver M60 amp and Proceed transport with EAD DAC. The edge to edge distance of the 2 speakers is less than 2 ft and I was sitting about 2-1/2ft away from the speaker. The sound is as clear as headphone but the sound stage is right in front. My only minor complaint is that the sound stage may not be deep enough but it is just right for Patrick's choice of music. I could not wait to invite the expert to my place to diagnose the problems of my ESL. When I showed the expert my "sweet spot", the expert's face looked blank. "No way". The treble is not clear enough, bass to boomy, image not sharp enough; only the sound stage may be correct. 3 more inches toe-in, tilt down by more than 18 deg. That's more like it. Took the expert no more than 30 minutes. But the treble and transparency are still not satisfactory. As an engineer as well as an "experienced audiophile", I thought I have checked everything and everything works ok. Would it be the inherent characteristic of the speaker?? Patrick just told me that the grille cloth is too thick. So simple. I am just a dwarf in front of the giant. The speaker now looks like this. Nude beauty, and everything now seems open up. Thanks Patrick. I hope next time you come, I will not be the black sheep of the ESL57 family.  |
cpsjj 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.181 |
2006-03-02 15:29 |
| [#344] QUAD ESL With the miracle that I've seen, I shall address Patrick as "St. Patrick". |
cpsjj 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.181 |
2006-03-02 15:37 |
| [#345] QUAD ESL CP, the brown grille looks more elegant! I do hope I can have St. Patrick with me to fix my esl57 and stack up!! |
rsbn589 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.51 |
2006-03-02 16:24 |
| [#346] QUAD ESL rsbn589, Do you have the esl57 on its original feet? I just tried this and the sound stage is too low. The singer seems to squatter down to sing and some instruments are only a few inches above the floor. The sound also seems not as clear. I also have to change the stand as it is not strong enough. I've checked St. Patrick's Arcici. Even that is not strong enough. I will have to go back to the drawing board. |
cpsjj 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.181 |
2006-03-02 17:19 |
| [#347] QUAD ESL ESL57's original feet are just perfect in a typical UK carpeted living room (much larger than the ones in HK) with hardwood floor. In situations where the room dimensions are too smaller the dispersion pattern optimized (quasi free-field) is no longer valid. ESL lovers have come up with different twists to suit different environments and taste. Peter Walk definitely knew what he was talking about. |
feikeung 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.71 |
2006-03-02 17:43 |
| [#348] QUAD ESL The mid bass reproduced by ESL57 sitting on its original feet is just awesome. Never before in my life had I heard mid bass so tight, so fast. I own ESL63 and ESL989 and they are nowhere near the original ESL57 in this regard. |
feikeung 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.71 |
2006-03-02 17:55 |
| [#349] QUAD ESL Hi, cp, Trust me, if the sound stage is low when using stock feet, it should be other problem such as speaker positioning, definitely not the stock feet. Same as your first listening experince, I used to be confused with the low sound stage when first installing the stock feet (mine is an imitation on the original one by Choice hifi, excellent carpentry quality). Let's not be confused, my ESL sound stage resumed at normal height after trying various speaker positioning, different listening distance, length away from rear and side wall and also separation between speaker, of course experimenting month after month. I believe brother Feikeung is right, Peter Walker knew what he's doing. Please don't give up on stock feet. Dennis |
dkyyu 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.233 |
2006-03-02 18:09 |
| [#350] QUAD ESL Hi, cp, More opinion, I think your description of lacking treble and low sound stage would probably highlight an indication of improper speaker positioning. Frankly, it's almost a piece of cake to acquire a reasonable sound stage with most box speakers. However,the ESL is never a point source and no way you can find the right place within a short period of time. it took me several months to experiment thousand times to try every inche of speaker movement such as tilting angle, toe-in and positioning for incremental improvement. In my case, the wooden stock feet without sharp edge has the additional advantage of NOT scratching my sitting room floor. The effort for optimal positioning is never an easy job but truely rewarding. Like what Feikeung said, you would appreciate a silk smooth mid-range and lively sound stage where no other speaker can come close. |
dkyyu 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.233 |
2006-03-02 18:21 |
| [#351] QUAD ESL CP, To add on, I do find the bass is sufficient (or boomy) when using stock feet. I did not spend much time to tweak but I like the original look with stock feet. Try to lift the center leg by putting coin underneath. |
rsbn589 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.51 |
2006-03-02 19:13 |
| [#352] QUAD ESL CP......Thanks for your compliment. I really can NOT call myself an "expert". My knowledge in the electrostatic speakers field is very limited. There are many very knowledgable seniors with loads of experience around. Among them, I am just a small boy playing with my little toys. I thought I got a good deal when I acquired my esl57. Now I know you got an even better deal than mine. Your esl57 is in good condition. I think the boomy bass was caused by the thick layer of fabric material on the front grille. and consequently ruin the meds and highs. I would take care that problem before I worry about the positioning. I agree with you that even Arcici stand is not rigid enough for the esl57. Remember I told you yesterday that my Arcici stand can be better if I stall a cross bar at the back to make it more strong? If I own a machine shop like you do, I would definately design and build a more rigid, more handsome and better sound steel stand for my esl57. Room size, acoustic treatment as well as a good stand plays the key role in good sound. Regards Patrick |
Pcs100 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.104 |
2006-03-02 19:29 |
| [#353] QUAD ESL Thanks all brothers for your comments. If some of you have achieved good sound stage with correct tonal balance with the stock feet, that means it is achievable, just a matter of trial and error. I will do that more seriously. I prefer a correct sound stage more than anything as my favourites are orchestral and chamber music. Not that many vocals but vocals, especially female vocals are more popular when inviting friends for auditioning. If I will be too stupid to achieve a good sound stage with the stock feet, I might as well put the speakers with the stock feet on 2 small antique tables. I also like the look with stock feet, very classical. |
cpsjj 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.141 |
2006-03-02 19:52 |
| [#354] QUAD ESL St. Patrick, my network may be limited but so far I do not know any "expert" who has rebuilt the diaphram of esl57 from raw materials, without the necessary fixtures for tensioning and in a home environment; except your goodself. |
cpsjj 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.141 |
2006-03-02 20:01 |
| [#355] QUAD ESL I do hope I can have St. Patrick with me to fix my esl57 and stack up!! ------------------------ rsbn......My pleasure! Please let me know when. Regds Patrick |
Pcs100 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.104 |
2006-03-02 20:31 |
| [#356] QUAD ESL Anyone tried driving esl57 with 300B or 2A3 power amps? Comments please. |
cpsjj 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.141 |
2006-03-02 20:57 |
| [#357] QUAD ESL Please note below an extract from an Audio Critic review back in 1980. Note the last sentence in para.2 in parenthesis). Anybody is aware that the Quad inverts the signal polarity? The AUDIO-CRITIC Volume 2, Number 3 (Spring to Fall 1980) wrote : QUAD ELECTROSTATIC LOUDSPEAKER "This all-time classic needs no introduction to any audiophile who knows enough to read equipment reviews at all. It has survived virtually unchanged for a quarter of a century (the manufacturer claims there have been no changes whatsoever, large or small, but we take that with a grain of salt); we too, keep invoking its name all the time, and yet we never reviewed it. The reason for that was a warp in our perspective : after all, more "modern" electrostatics were clamoring for attention all the time and, besides, everybody knows that the Quad has no bass and no top end (right?), even if it's fabulously transparent in the midrange. So we kept putting the Quad on the back burner of our critical range, concentrating on the Beveridges, Acoustats, Kosses, Dayton-Wrights, Sound-Labs and other headline makers of the electrostatic sector. At the 1980 summer CES in Chicago , however, we picked up certain clues indicating that a full test of the Quad might turn out to be more interesting than we had believed possible .We purchased a pair (for the fourth time in our audio career !) and now have the following to report. With the two panels six to seven feet apart (center to center) and angled slightly inward, and with a single auditioner sitting perfectly centered about six to eight feet back from the speakers, NOTHING- repeat, NOTHING ! - we know of equals the transparency and definition of the Quads. NOTHING. The speakers seem to disappear; only the music is left. All other speakers are slightly coloured by comparison. (You've got to watch your absolute phase, though; the Quad inverts the polarity of the signal). There is very little bass, to be sure. We measured a bump of 6dB or so at 48 Hz, below which the responses falls off- and that's the way it sounds, too. The highs are perfect ,however, in that one listening position; an add-on tweeter could, only ruin them. We measured flat amplitude responses on axis up to 30 kHz , off axis the responses holds up quite nicely to about 20 kHz. The vertical dispersion and overall power response aren't very good, though; hence the widely assumed need for an extra tweeter such as Decca or Pyramid ribbon. As for the midrange, it measures flatter than anything we've ever seen in our laboratory. And that's not all. Pulses are reproduced with steep sides and reasonably flat tops down to a width of 60 microseconds, an absolute record measurement in our experience. Ringing? Nowhere, sir, up or down the line, certainly nothing beyond the tiniest anomalies. This is some 1955 speaker. As a matter of fact, we refuse to believe that the current production version isn't considerably improved over the Quads of even the mid-1960's. This is not the sound we remember, but then again we weren't driving them with a Bedini 25/25 and using perfectly aligned MC cartridges with line-contact styli in those days. Of course, the Quad still isn't the speaker for everybody. If you insist on deep bass, forget it, unless you're willing to add subwoofers. If you usually listen with several other people, only one of you will be exposed to the proper sound field. And if you like to play your music at discotheque levels, you won't be happy. The Quad is a rapier, not a broadsword. But, wow, what a blade!" |
cpsjj 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.51 |
2006-03-03 11:01 |
| [#358] QUAD ESL rsbn......My pleasure! Please let me know when. Regds Patrick ------------------ Haha Patrick, u may hv forgotten. I'm from M'sia but we did had dinner last year in HK. There were 3 users of esl57 at the table; hehe..Rgds, KY. |
rsbn589 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.51 |
2006-03-03 11:55 |
| [#359] QUAD ESL Dennis Is it possible to go to your place to learn how you tune your esl57? |
cpsjj 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.51 |
2006-03-03 12:25 |
| [#360] QUAD ESL Hi, cp, You are welcomed. I am only just able to lift up my sound stage in a proper way after thousands of recent experiments but still not tried every corner yet. I guess we can meet Monday. Please call my mobile 9450 4803 after 7:00pm or you may leave me your number to my e-mail address: dkyyu@yahoo.com.hk |
dkyyu 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.224 |
2006-03-03 13:27 |
| [#361] QUAD ESL Haha Patrick, u may hv forgotten. I'm from M'sia but we did had dinner last year in HK ------------------- O boy!!! Family too big, brothers got mixed up! Now I remember we had a very pleasant dinner with Tim, Richard, you but John Lo had to leave before food is serve. He forgotten his school board meeting appointment. When will you visit HK again. Please drop us a line. You are welcome to listen to my esl57 in my tiny "secret chamber". Regds Patrick |
Pcs100 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.129 |
2006-03-03 20:39 |
