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| [#4104] ESL 27M drives the Black 12 monobloc again. The EICO ST-84 can take a rest now. :)  |
rcwy 正式會員221.xxx.xxx.253 |
2007-08-03 22:37 | |
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| [#4105] ESL Reluctantly I departed with the 27M today which has been with me for more than 2 weeks, replacing it with a bigger toy - feikeung's Maggie 3.5. Thanks for drwkng, rcwy, limage and feikeung coming to my steaming sauna on this hottest day of the year (35.3 degC) to chorus the grand finale of the 27M performance, meeting head on with the Nagra PLP, Siemens V72 and Music First TVC. Drwkng has brought along his secret weapon – a scrupulously made battery-powered buffer with balance output for the 27M to drive the V69a. Limage is kind enough to give me a Scheherazade CD by Charles Dutoit which I missed out of my collection of over 40 different Scheherazade. He has also brought along a Brahms violin concerto by Isaac Stern to test the different preamps. That is quite strange to me, doesn't he know there is a Brahms violin concerto juke box in my place? The denouement is we all squeezed in the air-con office and finished 3 bottles of red wine; with both limage and myself being teetotalers. With rcwy's arrangement, we then visited Andy Law with his newly acquired Exclusive speakers. Too bad I have to rush for a chamber music concert and cannot stay longer to join kris et al. Nontheless I left them an inebriated feikeung for them to handle. The chamber music concert was held by a few young musicians from Eastman School of Music and Oxford University in the Global Lounge of HKU. My son was invited to play as a soloist and also in a sextet. It is, as feikeung said, emotionally involved to see these brilliant young musicians playing, exchanging a wink to synchronize and smile together when suddenly they felt they're all in gear. The ‘Souvenir de Florence’ is one very happy melody from the miserable Tchaikovsky. That gave me a light-hearted evening. |
cpsjj 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.69 |
2007-08-03 22:52 |
| [#4106] ESL Patrick, drwkng has a gift for you which is now with me, something you need to make your GM20 to sound even better. You'll know when we meet. |
cpsjj 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.69 |
2007-08-03 22:59 |
| [#4107] ESL Is that it? What of the DIY preamp vs PLP? |
doctorjohn 正式會員 12.xxx.xxx.253 |
2007-08-04 04:34 |
| [#4108] ESL DJ, We were not able to achieve the same exhilarating performance as we had before with the Modena, drwkng reckoned that there must be something wrong with the Modena, perhaps the 8x 6C33c have reached end of their life. Given that, it may not do justice to any of the preamps by just presenting the perception straightforward. Notwithstanding, the PLP, albeit not fully charged to give a handicapped, still gave a better result than the 27M, IMO, despite the shimmering effect of the instruments was not as vivid as before. Both preamps gave a silky smooth treble and midrange; given the 27M already has a very remarkable treble and bass, the PLP presented a cleaner and more mellow treble in this respect, almost comparable to the TVC alone and of course with better impact. The TVC driving the Modena was no doubt the most transparent of them all. The reason that the 27M has to be turned very high to achieve an acceptable sound level with the Modena is still a puzzle, if the Modena is not in fault. If everything works normal, I still bet the PLP/Modena combination is invincible. In fact, the 27M vs the V72 driving the V69a which works normal, is more interesting, and both presented a sound more satisfactory than with the Modena. The 27M alone could not drive the V69 satisfactorily, but with the strange little battery-powered buffer, it is very promising. In fact drwkng preferred this much to the V72. The 27M quite obviously has a significant edge of better 2 ends extension over the V72. The bass is presented with great authority and the treble just sounds much “louder” than the V72 thereby creating a more transparent and open soundstage. Drkwng may be correct in his liking as his ears are more adapted to his equalized straight-line sound. At home-base, I still prefer the seemingly denser midrange of the V72 and the greater slam which brings out more passion. May be just like Prof. Higgins to Ms. Doolittle – Damn! I just got used to her face! |
cpsjj 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.211 |
2007-08-04 08:48 |
| [#4109] ESL cp, if the modena were working probably with the 57 and i were the customer, i wouldn't buy 27M to drive it. it is just like Sisyphus pushing the stone uphill such a waste of time. there is no life in the music. i was hiding in the air cond. room so i missed the PLP driving the Modena. if you say it is o.k., i take your word for it. i don't profess to understand the reason. even using the buffer to drive the Modena, it is not satisfactory. but interesting enough, the 27M clipped your GM20 with lower attenuation. given both Modena and GM20 has the same sensitivity, the modena must be outputting at full power most of the time. this theoretically should drive the 57 to hell and back. as you said, i have different interpretation of the performances of v72 driving v69 from you. i prefer the 27M coupling with buffer. what you called density, i called a loss of resolution. to me the sound just lumped together. even with 27M and buffer, i must say the sound is not my cup of tea. just does not make my day^-^ |
drwkng 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.143 |
2007-08-04 14:37 |
| [#4110] ESL To my aging ears perhaps, the sound I heard yesterday through whatever combinations of electronics, did not have a difference significant enough to enable intelligible conclusions. What was relatively clear was that the ESL57 did not have much audible output in the lower registers, probably below 70 Hz. The diaphragm should be moving vigorously given the more than adequate power from the Modenas. Phase cancellation therefore ought to be robbing most of the power which should otherwise be heard. Let’s not forget that with every 100 Watts of output, 98 Watts or more go for the low frequencies. I was assured more than once by everyone present that the system as a whole was not performing its best yesterday. What have you done to your speakers then, CP ? |
limage 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.76 |
2007-08-04 16:50 |
| [#4111] ESL The performance of the ESL-57/Moderna combo yesterday was a far cry from what it was a few weeks ago. Gone was all the zest and the sound was what I would call “flaccid” (Fei Keung’s favorite terminology). Apparently, the 6C33B’s, which have a prime life span of only 1000 hours, have lost their manhood. I’m sure changing all the 6C33B’s will bring the Modena back to life. The sound was so bad yesterday that I did not bother auditioning any further. The red wine was no where near what it was last time. Time to get new 6C33B’s and old red wine. |
feikeung 正式會員 220.xxx.xxx.94 |
2007-08-04 18:32 |
| [#4112] ESL The red wine was no where near what it was last time. ----------------------------------------------------- are you sure this is not a way to get more wine from cp? you drank like a fish. i must say i contribute part of the problem as well^-^ thank to cp for the good red wine but next time we have to do this either in winter or until there is some air conditioner installed. the heat is killing even me. |
drwkng 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.143 |
2007-08-04 18:57 |
| [#4113] ESL I think it's just the summer heat. Severe heat garantees bad sound. I doubt the Modena, little used, has aged so fast. I also doubt the same red wine is worse. Maybe we just upped our demands another notch too? :-) |
doctorjohn 正式會員 207.xxx.xxx.253 |
2007-08-04 22:41 |
| [#4114] ESL Dear all, Allow me to jump in. I still recall the improper tonal balance from the Music First TVC and GM20 playing at CP's studio last time. Was yesterday incident repeating the similar symtom? I suspect it could well be the poor 6C33C-B. How about a second round using Tim's BBA, my GM20 and TVC at my place in mid August? My ESL can't play as loud as CP's ESL but it is restored in proper working condition after dust cover remount by Patrick. |
dkyyu 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.23 |
2007-08-04 23:27 |
| [#4115] ESL Dear all: Allow me to jump in. Many, including me, remember the 幸福 sound of cpsjj's setup, AND regard it as reference for the ESL. No one place is perfect for an A/B shootout, actually a bad way to gauge the merits of what's being compared, and a game only for kids. So I am pretty sure it's the hot weather. As for the red wine,...well, beer would have been better! |
doctorjohn 正式會員 207.xxx.xxx.253 |
2007-08-05 02:53 |
| [#4116] ESL drwkng has a gift for you which is now with me, something you need to make your GM20 to sound even better. ---------------------------------------- Thanks Dr. King......I wonder what it is. By the way, I am very much in love with my Graaf GM20. I am glad I have made the right decision to acqire the GM20 and thanks to CP for his effort. I think GM20 and ESL57 is a perfect match for me. Regds Patrick  |
PCS100 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.30 |
2007-08-05 08:25 |
| [#4117] ESL GM20 |
PCS100 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.30 |
2007-08-05 08:27 |
| [#4118] ESL My GM20 with CPs Passive preamp.  |
PCS100 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.30 |
2007-08-05 08:32 |
| [#4119] ESL Hello gents, Thank you all for your comments and your genuine concern that the name of ESL not to be tarnished by a scruffy system or a scruffy person. Yes, the sound was messy the other day but not to the extent that the tonal balance was lost altogether as envisaged by dkyyu; and the equipment used was not scruffy at all. The midrange was still as smooth and soothing as an ESL should be but for some reasons most of the microdynamic disappeared and the sound was soft and slow in almost all occasions, devoid of life as drwkng said; like a music student playing a Strad. The heat could be a problem, if I have nothing else to blame. Speed of sound is approximately linearly proportional to temperature, i.e. V = 331.4 + 0.6T, so there is a close to 2% difference at 34 degC with normal air-conditioned room temperature. For an 800Hz midrange, it will sound like 815Hz which is a huge difference, not to mention a 2000Hz high. But why the shift in tonal would result in a slow and soft sound is beyond me, there are just too many other attributes including, of course, psycho-acoustics. The only other possible culprit I can think of is the CDP is simultaneously connected to 2 actively operating preamps via its XLR and RCA outputs, a condition which it is not supposed to operate in. Regarding the red wine, feikeung, I can only say the place is haunted. These are some of the best I have tasted more recently. The solution is much simpler though. If these don't suit you, I can always order other brand or other year. What have you done to your speakers then, CP ? __________________________________________________ Limage, You tell me. The whole purpose of your 10 years reclusion is to figure out how your system would consistently perform at its very best at all time. So other than strenuously cleaning the connections, did you ever come up with any methodology for maintaining the consistency and don't mind sharing with us on top of your speaker focal point or coupling theory. For your information, I haven't done anything to the speakers at all! Chaps, I'll disappear for a few days; not to recluse and fix up the system like limage did, but just a family outing. Come back to you on Friday. Cheers. |
cpsjj 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.215 |
2007-08-05 12:34 |
| [#4120] ESL ..I wonder what it is. ------------------ patrick, it is nothing much. it is only the 6c33c sockets i promised you. that's all. |
drwkng 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.125 |
2007-08-05 14:43 |
| [#4121] ESL For an 800Hz midrange, it will sound like 815Hz which is a huge difference, not to mention a 2000Hz high. ----------------------------------------------------- cp, you lost me here . shouldn't the wavelength get affected instead of frequency. isn't the frequency dictated by the speaker membrane movement? |
drwkng 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.125 |
2007-08-05 16:00 |
| [#4122] ESL Dear Doctor King, Will you be free in Hong Kong on 16/8 or 17/8 morning or afternoon? |
dkyyu 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.23 |
2007-08-07 10:47 |
| [#4123] ESL Will you be free in Hong Kong on 16/8 or 17/8 morning or afternoon? ----------------------------------------------------- no good on weekdays. still have to make a living^-^ |
drwkng 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.111 |
2007-08-07 11:42 |
