review33.com: 影音天地: QUAD ESL speaker

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[#583] Quad ESL The sound charateristic of ESL57 can not, and should not reproduce deep bass. --------------------------------------- Patrick, I hesitate to say.. that means your ESL57 is not yet in the best soft spot. Try different placement. ELS57 toed in a bit and listener (yes, SINGULAR) sits about 6 feet from, with about 2 feet behind th seat.		rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.253	2006-06-17 20:41

[#584] Quad ESL
The ESL57 is not a full range speaker. It never goes below 40 Hz and unlike boxed speaker, there is nothing there to enhance the bass response.
However, I find the bass of ESL57, when raised from the floor, is accurate, taut and yet flex; REAL bass i would call it. It is fairly close to live concert, lacking only slightly on the double bass group. And I think I go to concerts often enough to be able to comment on that.

In closed room listening and comparison, the ESL goes much deeper than the 3/5a of course, and also deeper than the BC1 with better bass quality as well, even when the BC1 is controlled pretty well by either M9 or V69a. However, when compared with Cello Legend from a friend, it becomes nothing. The bass from the Legend is just "stunning", like a tsunami striking. The bass at the ending of "A groovy kind of love" by Jheena Lodwick is not only audible, felt but just strike your stomach hard and with the 4 walls shaking. It was very exciting but I just find the kind of bass "unreal". It would not happen in most classical music, even in the greatest ffff. May be modern electronic music do produce this "real" deep bass.

So the interpretation of whether a speaker has real deep bass, though there should be some kind of defacto standard, is most of the time comparative or relative. My friend who has 3/5a and BC1 at home find the bass of ESL stunning. My other friend who owns the Legend find the ESL lack of bass!! So if my Cello friend wrote a statement here saying the ESL has no bass at all, it will be fiercely repudiated by my other friend. They have different standards.
My personal comment on the bass of the ESL57 is it is slightly not deep enough for live music, not to mention electronic music but it has good quality. And amongst the many pairs of speakers that I own now, the ESL has the best bass, even compared with the 12" Klipsch horn and JBL!!

Extract from www.quadesl.org :
The original Quad was mounted, stock standard on three little oak legs, so that it stood about 4 inches from the floor. The idea, I am pretty sure, was to emphasise the bass response which really starts to taper off with a vengeance at about 40Hz. Of course, the size of your listening room has a great effect on this, and the larger the room, the less bass emphasis you would get in any case. The average English parlour is somewhat smaller than the average Australian lounge (by a bout 80%), and, I imagine, similar size differences would be the case in the USA. (Country gentleman who do not, and never did, "bangeth the head", and who needed more volume in their spacious residences simply bought 4 Quads, for stereo. AlistairRobertson-Aikman (SME) had 16 at one point!

So, what do you do? Well, in the average listening room of today, with wall-to-wall carpet, and various soft furnishings you should raise the speaker about 12 to 14 inches from the floor. This will give less apparent bass, but it is far more accurate, and this is particularly noticeable with male voice. Bass control of this speaker is exceptional, and they will produce REAL bass when asked to.

How High?
Another very oft-asked question is: Should I mount the original Quad ESL (or the ‘63) off the floor? Closely followed by: “How high from the floor should I .....?”, and so forth. OK, for what it may be worth, my personal preference is to have stacked original Quads with the lower of the two speakers about 35.5cm (14 inches) from the floor. The base plate of the speaker stack is rather reflective (hard resin finish) - See SQ3 Pictures.

Additional opinions on the matter?
Tony Faulkner (Recording Engineer, interviewed 2003 for ‘Quad - The Closest Approach’ by Ken Kessler) said, “For my tastes, I prefer the sound with the speakers a foot or a little more off the floor, on open stands to tighten the bass.” He was commenting on the ESL ‘63 in this case.

Also commenting on the placement of the ESL ‘63, Peter Walker, in a letter to Ivor Humphreys (May 17, 1985) said: “I suspect they will be best raised well off the floor, much more than most commerical stands provide. Don’t worry about fancy spiked feet and the like, just prop them up on a stack of beer crates or what have you.” [reprinted in ‘Quad - The Closest Approach”, Ken Kessler, September, 2003]

cpsjj

正式會員
203.xxx.xxx.98

2006-06-17 21:39

[#585] Quad ESL
CP has described the character of ESL bass performance pretty well.

By law of physic, most box speaker can easily be designed to produce more punchy bottom in an articulated manner with the aid of cabinet, however,I think the choice of speaker, whether a cabinet type or electrostatic, is really a matter of personal preference.

In my poor little system, the sound stage, airness, guitar string and vocal sound more right to my ears from my ESL than any others I have tried so far. Perhap, I should give the ESL63 and the newer 2805/2905 a try later.

dkyyu

正式會員
210.xxx.xxx.217

2006-06-18 11:34

[#586] Quad ESL
Patrick,

When you fixed a date for the trying your ESL in estate's guest room, please call me. I hope to give you a hand bringing down your gear to the room.

dkyyu

正式會員
218.xxx.xxx.36

2006-06-18 23:22

[#587] Quad ESL
Thanks for CP's detialed description. I totally agreed with you. I also agreed with Dennis' view point that the type of speaker is a matter of personal choice. My personal preference of music/vocalist is on the sentimental, passionate, sensational type of performance rather than dynamic effect. So the lack of deep bass character of ESL really don't bother me at all. Like other ESL lovers, I have been in love with my ESL for more than 10 years and I am still in love with her.

Thanks for Dennis' offer, I need your help for the pre listening session. The main reason is, again, I want to prove if I can obtain the same sensational effect in the Club House room as I got in my previous listening room back in SF. I will call you to select the best time this week.

Regards

PCS100

正式會員
219.xxx.xxx.155

2006-06-19 00:49

[#588] Magnepan 20.1 @ Excel Hi Fi
Master Yu at Excel Hi Fi called me up another day regarding the Magnepan 20.1 which have been set up properly and are ready for audition (by appointment please). I can still vividly recall my first encounter with the 20.1 last year at the Hi End Show and was totally flabbergasted by its unrivalled ability in projecting a humongous sound stage.
I will be leaving for Canada this weekend or early next week and may not have time to attend but would strongly recommend you folks give Master Yu a jingle and make an appointment to audition the beast.

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feikeung

正式會員
219.xxx.xxx.42

2006-06-22 13:55

[#589] Quad ESL

There a report on the story of QUAD (acronym for Quality Unit Amplifier, Domestic), restoring and listening to a pair of QUAD ESL56 in this month's Stereophile.

Interested fans of QUAD may look around in the public library.

rcwy

正式會員
147.xxx.xxx.191

2006-06-22 19:08

[#590] Quad ESL
dear friends,

Just bought a second pair of ESL fitted with the original wooden One-thing-audio (OTA) stands today. Will try the quality with the taller OTA stand later.

Dennis

dkyyu

正式會員
218.xxx.xxx.155

2006-06-23 11:21

[#591] Quad ESL
Dear Dennis, Patrick, CP, John et al,

It has been a great pleasure reading your trail for a few days and I think this is the only corner within the site where we have well informed gentlemen engaging themselves in truly intelligent discussions on audio issues.

I do not own a Quad ESL although I did have the chance to get one 4 years ago. The speaker was taken to my smallish room for a one week trial, but it turned out to be defective, putting out strange pops every 5 to 10 seconds as soon as it was turned on. And hence I had to stay with my old favourite, the Magneplanar.

For years I find the weakest point of the Maggies lies in its mid range and this is exactly the area where the electrostatics excel. At one point many years back I tried to mate a pair of Martin Logan into my Tympani in a bi-amp configuration but it just didn’t work, probably because of severe sensitivity mismatch.

There are, I think, more similarities than diversities between the ESL and Maggies as against the rest of the crop. Both are accurate dipolar transducers, with their intrinsic ability to produce an open sound free from colorations of the enclosure.

I have heard several ESL systems throughout the years, including Mr. Chan’s (of Radio People) own vintage ESL57 playing back his exclusive recordings with an open reel, and master Yu of Excel demonstrating his double Quad. Yet I still believe I have not heard the legendary ESL at its very best. From your knowledgeable writings, I envisage you gentlemen might well have hit the jackpot.

I hope I am not too impertinent to intervene.

limage

正式會員
219.xxx.xxx.63

2006-06-23 11:48

[#592] Quad ESL
Hi, Limage,

So nice receiving so many responses from great people and gentlemen like you and others who are sharing their valuable experience and views on ESL and related topics.

I'd heard some other planar speaker including the 7 feet tall and smaller maggie before settling on ESL57. Frankly, the Maggie and other planar speakers are all great stuff but only the ESL can give you the final emotional and sensational touch in particular playing vocal or string.

The ESL will not produce punchy bass, but the ESL just excel in some area I could not describe that will keep one listening to music, yes music not hi-fi, hours after hours.

I feel sorry for your poor first experience with the faulty ESL and it was a bad news. But I would suggest everyone who is interested in listening to electrostatics speakers to give the ESL a try for the following reasons:

1) most QUAD users claim that ESL57 is still the best tranducer to produce the best mid range ever. Well I shall arrange myself to try the latest ESL before accepting this comment.
2) ESL57 voted as the best sounding product in 20th century in UK journalism.
3) too cheap to get a pair.

The ESL story can go on forver. Please share more view again.

Regards
Dennis

dkyyu

正式會員
219.xxx.xxx.244

2006-06-23 12:32

[#593] Quad ESL
Dear Limage,

If available, be invited to join our next ESL party.

dkyyu

正式會員
219.xxx.xxx.244

2006-06-23 12:34

[#594] Quad ESL
Dennis & friends,

Re:yes music not hi-fi, hours after hours

This is what I treasure most. That's why I have the Rogers LS 3/5A which is a fine musical instrument itself.

I'll be very excited as well as honoured to be able to join your listening sessions.

limage

limage

正式會員
220.xxx.xxx.141

2006-06-23 14:04

[#595] Quad ESL
Just bought a second pair of ESL fitted with the original wooden One-thing-audio (OTA) stands today
______________________________________________________________

Congratulations,Dennis.
What a steal again.

I did make an enquiry for this pair before for a double Quad but was met with cold wall.
I'm glad this eventually landed in the lovely home of a 57 enthusiast. What do you want to do with them, double Quad or spread along? As said earlier, Alistair Robertson-Aikman (SME) had 16 at one point so I bet you are working towards that target.
You now have the opportunity to raise the ESL to 12 inches with the One Thing Audio stand and you can check how the soundstage change with the lift. I believe they are not the prototype that I had before and you will be able to adjust the tilt with the bolt at the back. Make sure you do that.

cpsjj

正式會員
219.xxx.xxx.36

2006-06-23 20:41

[#596] Quad ESL
The One Thing Audio Rupert stand.

cpsjj

正式會員
219.xxx.xxx.36

2006-06-23 21:43

[#597] Quad ESL
ESL57 on Rupert stand.

cpsjj

正式會員
219.xxx.xxx.36

2006-06-23 21:45

[#598] Quad ESL
My ESL on the prototype Rupert previously.

cpsjj

正式會員
219.xxx.xxx.36

2006-06-23 21:48

[#599] Quad ESL
My ESL on 14" legs now.
Dennis......................... which one do you like?

cpsjj

正式會員
219.xxx.xxx.36

2006-06-23 21:51

[#600] Quad ESL
Yesterday was a fun day. Thanks for Patrick"s organizing and sparing most of the apparatus, we had an experiment on room acoustic and ESL positioning interaction.
A function room in Patrick's club house was dedicated for this purpose. No precision instrument was found good enough for this experiment and therefore 5 pairs of ears of different ages and 5 brains with different background and culture were used as the only measuring instrument.
The ESL57 was set on its stock feet and different heights on the Arcici stand. It was quite interesting to note how, not only the bass changed with the height but also the tonal balance.
Maximum amount of bass was achieved with the stock feet, i.e. approx. 4" from the ground. However, it was too boomy and lack of resolution. It also affected the clarity of the entire soundstage. Lifting the ESL up to the maximum height of the Arcici stand, i.e. 16", made everything crystal clear, or I should say clinically clear. So clear that all the emotion disappeared, together with the bass. All singers seemed just boringly narrating.
The magic 14" worked again. The ESL achieved perfect tonal balance at 14" with deep, clean and articulate bass. Emotion conveying? Is it not the strength of the Quad? We heard Danny Summer cry like a baby in "When the guitar weep".
It was also interesting to note the toe in angle changed with the height as well. With the rule of thumb, when you set the ESL directly to your ears at 16" or 14", imaging disappeared altogether. Less toe in brought the focus back to Leica standard. I hope Patrick has jotted down all the settings for the next round of open house when all good friends will be invited.
Thanks for Patrick again for a day full of fun.

cpsjj

正式會員
203.xxx.xxx.253

2006-06-24 10:39

[#601] Quad ESL

The V72/73 met Patrick's ESL again yesterday.
Watch out in the second hand market for Patrick's excellent Quicksilver monoblocks. I think Patrick is not not entirely happy with the power amp matching now, particularly they only got 4 and 8 ohm tappings.