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| [#943] QUAD vs Magnepan Perhaps you have not heard the QUAD ESL-63/989 set up properly. I am no high hand and have never been able to get my QUAD's to throw the kind of sound stage that I once heard at QUAD's showroom. I visited a lot of QUAD aficionados’ in the Eighties when I was still an avid audiophile (a self-proclaimed one, ie) and found that the vast majority of them were unable to get their ESL-63 to sing. A lot of them eventually gave up and sold their ESL-63 on the second hand market. The moral of the story: that our wives (girl friends/mistresses) have never had an orgasm does not necessary mean that they are frigid --- perhaps our cockmanship has room for improvement (don’t hit me on my head either). |
feikeung 正式會員219.xxx.xxx.219 |
2006-08-19 01:27 | |
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| [#944] QUAD vs Magnepan feikeung, It seems you have good experience with ESL already. Yes, the best placement of Maggies should be compared with the best placement of ESL. I always have this in my mind, including when I said "blow water is possible". :) I wonder if you have visited Limage, who uses Maggies and has excellent speaker placement. Then, you can compare for yourself. Pardon me if I have missed out some previous relevant discussions in this thread. :) |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2006-08-19 01:42 |
| [#945] QUAD vs Magnepan But I have not doubt that QUAD ESL is one of the speakers that have a mid range close to natural sound. I have heard of a pair of ESL57 at my friend's home in London. Properly placed in a 120 to 150 sq. ft. room, the ESL57 singed with amusing dynamics. But in terms of depth of soundstage and dynamics, there is still a street behind the Maggies at Limage's place. Maybe double QUAD is a different story. :) |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2006-08-19 01:57 |
| [#946] QUAD vs Magnepan Don't get me wrong --- I like the Magnepan 20.1 and 3.6R very much. However, the Quad and the Magnepan are different animals. The Maggie’s are not as accurate as the Quad's and the sound stage not as deep. Superb holographic imaging and a somewhat euphonic mid/mid bass with the ability to produce a lot of punch (when coupled with the right ancillary equipment) make the Maggie’s first choice for the reproduction of certain types of music. I know of no speakers under HK$50K which can match the 3.6R in terms of coherency and the ability to create, what I would call, sensation and a sense of presence --- yes, that’s what music is all about --- sensation… At fifty and change, I begin to appreciate some of the things I dismissed/neglected when I was young, opera being one of them. My sister was a soprano yet opera never enticed me. It was not until when I turned 50 a couple of years ago that I found opera fascinating. The Maggie’s have an upper hand over the Quad’s when it comes to reproducing opera. The Quad’s simply do not have the dynamic range to handle the contrast between the quietest and loudest passages in Italian operas. If you are a big fan of St Martin in the Fields there are no better speakers than the Quad’s (in my humble personal opinion, which may not be very humble at times). There is no universal speaker for everyone. Both the Quad’s and Magnepan’s are conceptually innovative and were pioneers in their respective technical territories, which was quite an achievement, considering the number/percentage of copycats rip-off companies hanging in the audio industry over the last 2-3 decades. |
feikeung 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.219 |
2006-08-19 03:02 |
| [#947] QUAD vs Magnepan When I talked about depth, I was referring to ESL-63/989, which mimics point source. ESL-57 does not come anywhere close to ESL-63/989 in terms sound stage depth, yet it does other things better. |
feikeung 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.219 |
2006-08-19 03:10 |
| [#948] QUAD vs Magnepan Good morning! Made a lot typos last late night (i.e. early this morning). :) Feikeung - Nice to have chatted with you last night. Have a great weekend! |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2006-08-19 09:02 |
| [#949] QUAD vs Magnepan J_L, One correction on the difference between Magnepan 3.5 and 3.6: the mid-range of 3.6 takes up 199 sq. in. against 3.5’s 170. They both employ aluminium wires glued onto the mylar surface. The MG 20 has ribbon bonded to mylar surface and is able to produce a very transparent mid-range. Feikeung, Thanks for offering us Rooze’s review of the 3.6. At the end of the day after innumerous tweaking, he still found the Maggies lean in tonal balance and a little lacking in body, seems to suggest that his placement of the speakers had left much to be desired. The tweeters were wrongly placed on the outside in the first place and the speakers were much too far away from side walls to be effectively coupled to the room. My Maggie, for nearly 30 years, never lacks body and it is anything but lean. Well, I believe this is a good example to show to rcwy that whatever you do with the amps or cables or speaker stands or crossover caps and the like, you won’t get the speakers to sing properly without the proper placement. That’s how my 60% is derived. I am also an avid fan of ASMF, but I believe the Maggies do take some beating even against the Quad ESL when it comes to reproducing the sublime strings of St. Martin. If you are in HK, you’ll be welcome to my music den to audition for yourself. Hearing is sometimes better than talking. limage |
limage 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.154 |
2006-08-19 09:16 |
| [#950] QUAD vs Magnepan Well, I believe this is a good example to show to rcwy that whatever you do with the amps or cables or speaker stands or crossover caps and the like, you won’t get the speakers to sing properly without the proper placement. That’s how my 60% is derived. ------------------------------------------- Limage - But at least we have to make sure that the gears match well with each other, including the speakers, and the amps/cables work normal. I believe the amp would become a "negative asset" if it does not match well with other gears, i.e. however good speaker placement you have been using, you cannot get the full marks of 60%. :) |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2006-08-19 09:31 |
| [#951] QUAD vs Magnepan the amp would become a "negative asset" if it does not match well with other gears, i.e. however good speaker placement you have been using, you cannot get the full marks of 60%. ----------------------------------------------- Note: As far as I know, Limage spent hours and hours in cleaning his interconnects/cables/RCAs/cartbridge stylus/LPs and days and weeks in testing/matching his 6DJ8/6550s to make sure he gets the fullest marks possible from speaker placement. His last statement was just a humble omission of his tenuous attention paid to clean electrical contacts and perfect working condition of gears. :) |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2006-08-19 09:42 |
| [#952] QUAD vs Magnepan It was not until when I turned 50 a couple of years ago that I found opera fascinating _____________________________________________________________________________ I was very much into opera well before I turn 50, may be I'm a bit premature in this respect as I believe I have since suffered senile dementia in my early thirties. Albeit that my ESL57 has not yet produced a deep enough soundstage, it does possess a particular attribute in the presentation of opera music or vocal music alike. The singers seem to be much more forward and well illuminated by a spotlight with the music instruments all falling into their respective places. It could be the effect of the very lucid and transparent mid range that transpires into the revelation of the minute subtleties of the interpretations of the characters. The 57 also excels at playing chamber music. The cosiness of having a quartet, or maximum up to an octet, playing around is very vivid. Despite I have experimented with the ESL57 upside down, I'm still only a neophyte to the electrostatic and planar religion as I only have them for a few months. I still have vivid memories of visiting Radio People at the early 80s when the 63 was launched. They were played side by side with the Kef 105.2 and blew away the Kefs in soundstage and holographic imaging. They were more like the MBLs that I walked around the room and still felt the accurate stereo image. I'm still expending my best effort to get the best soundstage out of the 57, hopefully matching my good'old memories depite the dementia, whilst I'm quite comfortable with all the other attributes of a good speaker that the 57 already have. While opera and chamber music are my favourites, unfortunately I'm also a big fan of orchestral music. If the 57 does not even come close to 63/989 in terms of depth irrespective of whatever I put in, may be it's time I should start looking around for a 989. |
cpsjj 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.31 |
2006-08-19 09:52 |
| [#953] QUAD vs Magnepan Well, Richard, I preseme of course that the rest of the chain are of sufficiently high fidelity standard, at least. Different amps certainly have different sounds, but the sound of the speakers are always dominant. I could substitude my Premier One with say a Quad 405 (which is lying idle at the corner of my rack) and the result is a reduction in musicality but not much loss in imaging, soundstaging and layering. Not even much loss in dynamic impact either, provided I don't play at concert level. You must have tried different amps with your Tannoy in its new position. I think you may have less obvious differences, apart from musical timbre, than you had before. |
limage 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.194 |
2006-08-19 10:04 |
| [#954] QUAD vs Magnepan it is almost impossible for QUAD ESL to blow away Maggies, but blow water is possible _________________________________________________________________________________________ rcwy..................I take it to myself to challenge your statement. |
cpsjj 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.31 |
2006-08-19 10:09 |
| [#955] QUAD vs Magnepan CP, I strongly believe you need a smaller room to get your ESL singing, be it ESL57, or 63 or 989. Period. |
limage 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.194 |
2006-08-19 10:11 |
| [#956] QUAD vs Magnepan If that being the case, I will. Just let me try few more things. |
cpsjj 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.31 |
2006-08-19 10:14 |
| [#957] QUAD vs Magnepan It was not until when I turned 50 a couple of years ago that I found opera fascinating ______________________________________________ Nice to realize I am still under 50. |
limage 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.194 |
2006-08-19 10:22 |
| [#958] QUAD vs Magnepan Nice to realize I am still under 50 _____________________________________ Sorry limage, one of the more prominent symptom of senile dementia is an old man acting like a child. |
cpsjj 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.31 |
2006-08-19 10:28 |
| [#959] QUAD vs Magnepan Shit. CP, you don't blow me up1 |
limage 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.194 |
2006-08-19 10:31 |
| [#960] QUAD vs Magnepan Shit. CP __________ Easily get irritated is a symptom of dementia praecox, not necessarily senile this time. |
cpsjj 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.31 |
2006-08-19 10:38 |
| [#961] QUAD vs Magnepan it is almost impossible for QUAD ESL to blow away Maggies, but blow water is possible _________________________________________________________________________________________ rcwy..................I take it to myself to challenge your statement. --------------------------------------- (Shit) CP - :P Please don't omit the first part of my statement, which is copied and pasted below: If you talk about soundstage, depth of soundstage, punch, etc.. one pair of QUAD to one pair of Maggies.. it is almost impossible for QUAD ESL to blow away Maggies, but blow water is possible. |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2006-08-19 10:49 |
| [#962] QUAD vs Magnepan "You must have tried different amps with your Tannoy in its new position. I think you may have less obvious differences, apart from musical timbre, than you had before." this is an interesting thought. i would have thought the other way round. my line of thinking is like this. we can obviously hear the effect of different amps in most resonably good setup, speaker wise. now i agree that speaker placement and speaker itself is most significant effect on the overall sound. it is obvious just by measuring the room response. now the interesting thing is while there are peaks and gaps in the room response, we can still hear the effects of amp etc which has relatively small variations among them. i therefore would venture to hypothesise that if the room and speaker coupling is acoustically balanced, the system will be more sensitive to changes in the rest of the chain. now to prove this, we have to agree is what is 'acoustically balanced' first. any taker! |
drwkng 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.208 |
2006-08-19 13:18 |
