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| [#1663] Quad ESL speaker drwkng, I'm not a scientist but I'm very much into operations research. Seems like we are taking 2 different approaches. In our field, we optimize under constraints and we spell out clearly the constraints, like linear programming. With your approach you are taking away the constraints. It is quite clearly both Smith and Richard are trying to optimize under constraints. There is an underlying theory for every specific step of optimization, be it linear programming, queueing theory, games theory, whatever. We develop models which people can easily use for optimizing a problem when the constraints can be quantified. In other words, people can use our models and come up with an optimized solution without knowing all the theories or principles behind. A lot of OR students just fill in the blanks in a matrix table and come up with a solution without even knowing it is entirely linear programming. I don't believe all those effective step by step methods are just voodoo science. People are just doing something scientifically developed without knowing it. |
cpsjj 正式會員218.xxx.xxx.85 |
2006-10-22 00:17 | |
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| [#1664] Quad ESL speaker "whilst Richard's theory of reverse wave propagation to me is absolute nonsense. " Readers familiar with "science" should not take such statements as personal attacks. Its essence is a challenge to a hypothesis, very common in academics. I leave the proposition open to people interested in speaker placement to try, test and challenge. Spirite of Ah-Q. :) |
rcwy 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.225 |
2006-10-22 09:15 |
| [#1665] Quad ESL speaker Morning Dr. King and CP, I had my attention drawn to Bertini’s Mahler 1-4 while you two had this heated argument over Jim Smith’s method of speaker placement. Being a student of literature I tend to use “models and come up with an optimized solution without knowing all the theories behind”. Literature has more to do with feelings and what I want to do is to approximate that involving live concert feeling at home. My method, which has been proven in many places, is to find the focal point to place the speakers and then fine tune the stereo seat. Smith is doing it the other way round. I suppose both are effective and may perhaps come out with the same results. He does not mention room coupling, perhaps I have gone one step beyond! The 1/3 octave devices do help me, in difficult situations, to understand the room more precisely with regard to its resonant modes but at the end of the day I would almost invariably rely on my own ears to find the sweet spot. Music, itself an art form, has to be done artistically. Resonances are unavoidable. Many audiophiles all over the world are working hard to get rid of their room resonances; I would try my best to make use of them to the fullest extent instead. |
limage 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.204 |
2006-10-22 09:39 |
| [#1666] Quad ESL speaker Good morning! Well, it would be very simple to test out! In rcwy's place of course! Using the Tannoy (more likely to boom than the 3/5a), say and we'll try the Smith method out, and see whether it ends up anywhere close to rcwy's spots. Just a suggestion. |
doctorjohn 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.234 |
2006-10-22 09:52 |
| [#1667] Quad ESL speaker Using the Tannoy (more likely to boom than the 3/5a), say and we'll try the Smith method out, and see whether it ends up anywhere close to rcwy's spots ------------------------------------------ I would like to join if a SPOT test will be held. Give me 10 minutes, I will find out G_spot :-) G, of course, stands for GINGER :-) |
Gingers 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.241 |
2006-10-22 10:15 |
| [#1668] Quad ESL speaker I would like to join if a SPOT test will be held. Give me 10 minutes, I will find out G_spot :-) G, of course, stands for GINGER :-) ---------------------------------------------- After deep consideration, I would like to be the one of the audiences to enjoy your efforts. Just give me a piece of paper, I will give you your score marks :-) Don't worry, I am sure your guys will have my score marks more than 90, OK? :-) |
Gingers 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.241 |
2006-10-22 10:19 |
| [#1669] Quad ESL speaker Of course, I will give my hands to move the speakers to any place as what I had done yesterday with KC in R's workshop :-) |
Gingers 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.241 |
2006-10-22 10:21 |
| [#1670] Quad ESL speaker 冒天下之大不諱，進言幾句 與其臨淵羨魚，不如退而結網。 紙上談礎 不如就在 Richard's workshop 下一盤棋。 一笑 |
Gingers 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.241 |
2006-10-22 10:27 |
| [#1671] Quad ESL speaker After another 4 minutes deep consideration. I think it will not be fair for CP to set the sweet spot at R's workshop as CP may not be too familiar with R's workshop. Please consider to move the Tannoy to my place. Fair play, isn't it? |
Gingers 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.241 |
2006-10-22 10:34 |
| [#1672] Quad ESL speaker G-spot 老薑: 下一盤棋可以因眾多旁觀阿伯而更大件事。可開盤嗎? 有警察在應該不會有事的! |
doctorjohn 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.234 |
2006-10-22 10:36 |
| [#1673] Quad ESL speaker DoctorJohn You always think a bit step forward, that may be the reason why we have 一頭銀髮 :-) See whether the 棋局 will be held first. Of course, 旁觀, whosoever 阿伯 or 阿B, 不得"醫"牙鬆槓 |
Gingers 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.241 |
2006-10-22 10:44 |
| [#1674] Quad ESL speaker Please consider to move the Tannoy to my place. Fair play, isn't it? ---------------------------------------- My CEO just objected. See whether limage's place is available or not. I think there will be some difficulties to set up the Tannoy at limage's speaker room. How about the open area, the garden Limage 二景 羅漢樹下 仙女掌傘 下一盤棋 |
Gingers 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.241 |
2006-10-22 10:56 |
| [#1675] Quad ESL speaker I think it will not be fair for CP to set the sweet spot at R's workshop as CP may not be too familiar with R's workshop. __________________________________________________________________________ Guys, leave me alone. I never said I'm good at speaker placement. I'm neither pro limage nor pro Smith. I never challenge others' methods. I just try to understand and explain them. Hopefully fuse them together and make one perfect theory. Richard, you're right. There's not a hint of personal attack, and yes, I still think your theory kind'a bullshit. Just the theory, not the method. I didn't argue with drwkng on limage's or Smith's method. We were discussing 2 different approaches. drwkng tries to eliminate constraints and simulate a perfect world. I am kind of lazy, just quantify and the constraints and work around them. Operations reseachers never give a perfect solution, at best an optimized and compromised solution. So I agree drwkng is one level up. But since we have 2 algorithms at hand, we don't we just try them out as suggested by doctorjohn. |
cpsjj 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.76 |
2006-10-22 12:09 |
| [#1676] Quad ESL speaker Please consider to move the Tannoy to my place. Fair play, isn't it? __________________________________________________________________________ I wonder if we can actually walk around and find the G spot. |
cpsjj 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.76 |
2006-10-22 12:29 |
| [#1677] Quad ESL speaker we'll try the Smith method out, and see whether it ends up anywhere close to rcwy's spots. _____________________________________________________________________________________ On further thought, if rcwy has already found the sweet spot and put the speakers there, would it not be just a simple task to swap the speakers and the listening position and see which one sounds better? |
cpsjj 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.76 |
2006-10-22 12:49 |
| [#1678] Quad ESL speaker I wonder if we can actually walk around and find the G spot. ---------------------------------------- I seldom walk around if find a G spot :-) Kidding :-) |
Gingers 正式會員 221.xxx.xxx.241 |
2006-10-22 12:57 |
| [#1679] Quad ESL speaker I wonder if we can actually walk around and find the G spot. ------------------------------------- G spot is very difficult to find. Recent study reveal that it was not located at the spot that most people thought is was. Regds |
Pcs100 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.151 |
2006-10-22 16:19 |
| [#1680] Quad ESL speaker cp, The method suggested by Jim Smith sounds logical to me, that is, to allot the best quality and clarity listening position for the emperor's listening seat. I think this idea would be considered as one of the most convenient way to most lazy enthusiasts like me to try out in their home place. However, the writer mentioned vert little on toe-in and other treatment etc. Would you kindly paste his second part "playing the room" for sharing? |
dkyyu 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.23 |
2006-10-22 18:25 |
| [#1681] Quad ESL speaker cp, "I don't believe all those effective step by step methods are just voodoo science. People are just doing something scientifically developed without knowing it." it is voodoo science as soon as we assign aribtrary explanation to an observed phenomenon. for argument sake, i have a method to predicate the time it takes one from my home to your home. it has been demonstrated again and again that it is the most accurate method bar none. my explanation is that i can feel the 'force' that is why my method is accurate. i'm the new sky lukewalker. you see my claim of being 'sky lukewalker' has nothing whatsoever to do with my method what that is. does it mean my method is not accurate. no! does it mean i'm skylukewalker. you make your mind. this kind of fallacy i'm afraid is very popular among audiophiles. just spend time in either revew33 or audioasylum. you'll see plenty examples. |
drwkng 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.189 |
2006-10-22 23:24 |
| [#1682] Quad ESL speaker limage, "The 1/3 octave devices do help me, in difficult situations, to understand the room more precisely with regard to its resonant modes but at the end of the day I would almost invariably rely on my own ears to find the sweet spot. Music, itself an art form, has to be done artistically." i couldn't agree more, if you are talking about 1/3 octave, your ears are much more reliable than those any day. i agree music is art but sound is science. "Resonances are unavoidable. Many audiophiles all over the world are working hard to get rid of their room resonances; I would try my best to make use of them to the fullest extent instead." if you are talking about room mode. yes, you are right. it cannot be eliminated completely but they can be reduced, if you want to, to an acceptable level. however comb filter effects can be managed without too much problem if one wants. |
drwkng 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.189 |
2006-10-22 23:29 |
