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| [#1863] Quad ESL speaker an arrogant statement to say the least _______________________________________ Yes, that's a very arrogant statement, but I meant what I said. That might at the same time disclose my ignorance. Whoever made such a categorical statement is either authoratitive or totally ignorant. I might well be the latter. Frankly neither can I enjoy music through iPod. Well for some types of music, I can, but not all. And those are with a melodic structure more easily to be interpreted. that was my past time during my research years ________________________________________________ Then I will have a lot to learn from you before I actually go on the study. Looking forward to that. But to say that music is just a harmonic structure resonant with our human structure is an overly simplified statement for me either. May be my interpretation is over simplified. Just what structure resonant with what to make us feel happy or sad at the least may already be too complex. |
cpsjj 正式會員219.xxx.xxx.1 |
2006-10-31 23:51 | |
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| [#1864] Quad ESL speaker But to say that music is just a harmonic structure resonant with our human structure is an overly simplified statement for me either. -------------------------------------------------- oversimplification indeed. that probably shows my ignorance as well. unfortunately any study that involves human being as a subject bounds to be fuzzy and subject to interpretation. the reason why i say the harmonic structure might resonate with our human body is that i still remember the research about effect of baroque music on plants and humana. human being tends to enter a calm state with baroque type of music but entering an excited state with rock music. mind you it is only baroque type of music with the strict harmonic structure that tends to have that effect. latter music in the classical era don't follow the strict harmonic structure as the baroque does doesn't exhibit this effect on humans. i think another music genre that does it is the ancient indian music. a bit fuzzy on my memory on that. |
drwkng 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.206 |
2006-11-01 00:12 |
| [#1865] Quad ESL speaker We seem to have digressed to the study of the body and soul of homo sapien and the particular structure of baroque music which is really characterized by the 12 equal semitones, purely mathematical in nature, and which still dominated through the classical and romantic era. Our discussion started with my interpretation of your statement "can one enjoy a good kobi beef steak in a hk public toilet" which when put in the context of my previous posting, means "can one enjoy good music with a lousy system". My response with the arguments of a hut, an igloo etc. simply mean very often the attributes descibing the system have little or nothing to do with the major attributes describing the music. That means music can be readily appreciated through low fi. I do endorse your statement meaning that if one of the attributes of the system (smell) has a fundamentally effect on any of the major attributes of the music, then that will be something of significance. I have to clarify that 1. I do mean those who can enjoy music through iPod knows how to APPRECIATE music, and those who cannot, don't; 2. I didn't say nor imply anything on classical music; 3. I refuted the saying that some particular systems are for music lovers only. I said anything can be for music lover if there are people who can enjoy music even with iPods as supported by my argument that most of their respective attributes do not cross each other. I hope these basic standpoints do not get confused in our subsequent discussion. |
cpsjj 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.1 |
2006-11-01 00:49 |
| [#1866] Quad ESL speaker I do remember the study on baroque music and rock music and I think that was a rather coarse study. It could be explained that baroque music has a fixed regular beat and rock music doesn't, or less regular; both types having a strong emphasis on bass instrument. And I think the measured variables were heart beat, blood pressure etc. There was also an experiment in UCLA using Mozart's music (classical) in general and the 4 hands piano sonata in particular on 2 groups of UCLA undergrats, each group in turn as control. There was repeatedly a 20% increase in IQ. Subsequent to this experiment, there appeared in the market all the "Mozart music for XXX" CDs. I am not aware of any subsequent study result. |
cpsjj 正式會員 219.xxx.xxx.1 |
2006-11-01 01:04 |
| [#1867] Quad ESL speaker I do remember the study on baroque music and rock music and I think that was a rather coarse study. It could be explained that baroque music has a fixed regular beat and rock music doesn't, or less regular; both types having a strong emphasis on bass instrument. And I think the measured variables were heart beat, blood pressure etc. ------------------------------------------------------ you didn't see the pictures of abnormal plant growth when they are continuously bombarded with rock music.:-) don't take all these too seriously. as one gets old, one grows to realise that the more you know the more you don't know. by the way, another thought for you to ponder, do you think music is in the harmonic structure or in the sound reproduction? |
drwkng 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.111 |
2006-11-01 09:49 |
| [#1868] Quad ESL speaker one grows to realise that the more you know the more you don't know _________________________________________________________________________ My problem is I come to realize I don't even understand issues which I thought I previously understood, not to mention new issues which I haven't got a grip. do you think music is in the harmonic structure or in the sound reproduction ________________________________________________________________________________ Yes I think music is more in the harmonic structure, be it classical or contemporary. I'm not sure about tribal music, the polyphonic nature seems to be completely different. When you look at music theory like chord formation, counterpoint etc., they are theories, more specifically rules, that build on the use of such harmonic structure. Melody may be something different though. Or a combination of both with harmonic playing a bigger role, as the timbre of a sound like violin compared with a cello, does convey something differently. |
cpsjj 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.21 |
2006-11-01 11:04 |
| [#1869] Quad ESL speaker Yes I think music is more in the harmonic structure, be it classical or contemporary. --------------------------------------------------- can't agree more. so i think the music lover should go to read their score and those who like to indulge in aural orgasm should listen to their hifi.:-) |
drwkng 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.111 |
2006-11-01 11:30 |
| [#1870] Quad ESL speaker so i think the music lover should go to read their score and those who like to indulge in aural orgasm should listen to their hifi.:-) _____________________________________________________________________________________ Quite right. That is why you find it more interesting to go on a tour after reading the history of your destination. If you can't read the score, at least read the background of the music composition. Likewise those who indulge in their aural orgasm should at least know which part of the system arouse their orgasms. |
cpsjj 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.21 |
2006-11-01 11:42 |
| [#1871] Quad ESL speaker Two guys are speaking of different languages, one being physical, the other being mental. This can be an endless conversation. Not only motor car mechanics and/or engineers can enjoy or know how to drive better. There are hundreds of other affecting factors. Accordingly, I don't think only composers, singers or musicians can enjoy music. Most of the guys amongst the audience at the concert hall are orginary people, each of whom may have different understanding as well as approaches to music and/or music playing. How can we give a single strict definition of enjoyment or appreciation to everyone across the board? |
j_l 正式會員 222.xxx.xxx.58 |
2006-11-01 12:17 |
| [#1872] Quad ESL speaker j_l, It's the same language, only different concepts. Eventually we'll get together. Every good driver eventually has to know something about car mechanics, otherwise he can't progress. Same applies to music appreciation. Everybody has a basic feel or enjoyment of the music, eventually one has to learn to further appreciate. I'm not saying eventually there is a unique appreciation or interpretation, even Furtwangler and Toscanini had completely different view and interpretations on nearly every piece of music they performed. As said, diversity is what makes this world interesting; just like drwkng and me. |
cpsjj 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.21 |
2006-11-01 12:31 |
| [#1873] Quad ESL speaker two guys are speaking of different languages, one being physical, the other being mental. This can be an endless conversation. --------------------------------------------------- as i said before, without going into metaphysics, everything is physical. 'mental' is the physical part that we don't yet quite understand. that's all. i'm more down to earth that than most music lover. as i said i don't buy into all that music theories really. they are just feeble human attempts to map the resonance structure that is ingrain in the universe, human included. if they resonate with me, i couldn't care less how many theories are behind them. that's why i'm into all sorts of 'music'. |
drwkng 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.111 |
2006-11-01 12:40 |
| [#1874] Quad ESL speaker The Kobe beef simile is really a fetching argument as beef is food which is essential to life but music is not. I would readily enjoy anything edible in a toilet if I am starving to death and am left with no other places of choice. It is of course far more enjoyable to have Kobe beef with the right company under the right atmosphere. Feikeung’s analogy is simple and direct though much less academic: “It’s quite possible to enjoy music with IPOD and earplugs. However, it’s easier to attain orgasm with the proper equipment.” We could all enjoy Vivaldi or Miles Davies with a car stereo but obviously not to the same degree as we do with a decent system. It’s purely the degree of enjoyment rather than the difference in music or equipment that sparks off the debate. Frankly I don’t see much room for argument between our two scholars if they do not choose to be too scientifically analytical. |
limage 正式會員 220.xxx.xxx.135 |
2006-11-01 12:47 |
| [#1875] Quad ESL speaker .......People hearing without listening......... .......People talking without speaking.......... .......People writing songs that voices never share........ .......no one dare, disturb the sound of silence....... |
cpsjj 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.21 |
2006-11-01 13:10 |
| [#1876] Quad ESL speaker I shut up |
j_l 正式會員 222.xxx.xxx.58 |
2006-11-01 13:19 |
| [#1877] Quad ESL speaker j_l, Don't get me wrong. I'm just saying everything stems from this song. |
cpsjj 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.21 |
2006-11-01 13:23 |
| [#1878] Quad ESL speaker CP I must shut up not because of you, just thinking that I know too little of music and hifi techicality and that I also lack understanding of other people's feelings. Most important of all, I don't have decent hifi toys and desirable auditioning environment. I'd better let go. Perhaps I may have to quit enjoying music soon when my problematic left ear deteriorates. |
j_l 正式會員 222.xxx.xxx.58 |
2006-11-01 13:50 |
| [#1879] Quad ESL speaker as i said, don't get too serious about all these 'discussions'. arguments! no. i don't think so. people bound to have different world views otherwise it would be very boring indeed. discussion is always healthy. i think what we should try to stay away from is a simple classification of human behaviour. limage, since the person can stay in the toilet long enough to consider a meal, he can't possibly be starving. otherwise what is he doing in the toilet in the first place? :-) |
drwkng 正式會員 210.xxx.xxx.111 |
2006-11-01 14:21 |
| [#1880] Quad ESL speaker j_l, Are you saying Lafayette + Tannoy is not decent? Plus you now have the Fisher + 12.1. Don't give up, join other friends to play is also fun. It's always pleasure to have you. You are always welcome. |
cpsjj 正式會員 203.xxx.xxx.21 |
2006-11-01 14:59 |
| [#1881] Quad ESL speaker |
Gingers 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.4 |
2006-11-01 17:18 |
| [#1882] Quad ESL speaker |
Gingers 正式會員 218.xxx.xxx.4 |
2006-11-01 17:18 |
